It’s also easy to forget how much progress the server has actually made since those times, and how a lot of norms have changed for the better. I think one of the more obvious examples is the prevalence of racism and sexism that used to exist on the server, which was just kind of socially accepted at the time. Granted, this was a lot more common in certain RP scenes than others, such as north human RP. For me, without naming names, the aforementioned progress became readily apparent when I saw in recent times a Stromgarde guild try desperately to cling on to that obsolete RP culture by emulating the behavior and bigotry of its predecessor, and just how completely out of place it felt in the current climate of the server. This is not to say that this sort of stuff does not exist on the server today, but the tolerance for problematic RP has significantly lowered over the years, and we continue to head in the right direction. The so-called golden age of RP is often just the gilded age, once you actually start scratching at the surface and peel off that dazzling exterior.
Uhm ok? Did I strike a nerve?
Not sure why you’re engaging with me in that way.
Seems kinda redundant/crazy take to hardline that somehow when the population was much higher things weren’t better off. I mean from a statistical point, with a higher population - you’ve got more diversity of characters, more events, more guilds to interact, more populated towns, more spontaneous moments and plenty more.
When there’s an significantly lower, or more divided community, you’ve basically got everything above but less. So I don’t see how it can be argued that there wasn’t a time when RP was far more functionable and economical for the servers health, aka a golden age.
Anyways, the reality is kind of surface level:
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The Cata zones have gotten dry, I mean Stormwind is outdated massively. And it’s why Cataclysm was such a boom for RP not to mention the inclusion of Raid Markers which is now a staple of most events, because it had so much… (Solution: World Revamp and Cities, Quests etc)
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New Lore, factions like Northwatch, Stromgarde, even the Menethil Harbour, had plenty of new stories for players to build ideas off. Lore also needs to be exciting - unlike Dragonflight, Shadowlands etc. (Solution: Build off the Revamp with New Lore, make it interesting and exciting and WARCRAFT)
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Really mirroring these points with Legion, because there was alot of new Lore, you had the revival of the Silver Hand, the sudden emergence of Sylvanas as Warchief etc etc.
So yeah, the Golden Age for RP was definitely in something like Cataclysm/Legion where there was so much new stories to tell, and get excited about.
TLDR, your average ADer really doesn’t care for the social battlefield frontier of Argent Dawn’s most biggest baddest villains and guilds on the forums. They just wanna tell stories and get bored of having to be in the same environment and setting all the time, especially with the apathy towards Lore in the current stage. Why is Undermine so massive at the moment? Cuz it’s exciting. Duh
Conclusion: There’s definitely so many times I can go to Shadowfang Keep, for a Shadowfang Keep assault event x100, or Fenris Isle skirmish on row-boats, or killing bandits in Westfall. When the environment continuously remains the same, it’s quite easy to get bored and not be as heavily invested as say the storytellers. And that bleeds into AD’s current state, it’s not bad, it’s not awful, it’s just kind of predictable.
I don’t think it’s that common really, what is common however is how this apparent ‘dooming’ is blown out of proportion and discussion goes into a toxic back and forth because a certain side cannot live with the idea that things could have been better before and the people who bring this up are negative meanies who only want to dunk on the poor people who enjoy themselves now.
I don’t necessarily disagree with the points you made except maybe for the nostalgia bit but I’m not trying to say that things were perfect. There were a lot of issues that made the server feel like a bad place to be in for a number of people and that should be acknowledged, neither am I dismissing the things that have changed for the better since then however I’m trying to look at the broader picture.
It’s cool that people are really enjoying themselves now in the current days, that’s great and you should be. But we need to stop weaponising these discussions about how things used to be and not turn them into weird personal attacks, goes for both sides really. If you’re bored of these conversations and the points that are made (which you may or may not disagree with) then simply tune out rather than deciding to play the thought police. This nonsensical correlation between doomposting and ingame bullying that a few rockstar posters here repeated in other threads is particularly exasperating.
Just to note that racism as a concept (though between other races and not blues of stormwind and reds of stromgarde) is a perfectly fine thing to roleplay as it’s deeply integrated in the setting and the source behind most if not all faction conflict in the game. Of course there’s going to be some weirdos who take it a bit too far but that doesn’t mean this particular avenue of roleplay should not be explored and it’s a bit strange how the people who like to engage in it without any ulterior motives get instantly slapped with all sorts of labels these days. You can explore themes and topics like that simply because they are interesting topics to explore and can be used to enrich a character/guild/experience.
So I wouldn’t go and lump it all as “problematic RP” since it’s kinda weird my guy.
Between nothing being introduced on Azeroth for two entire years, some genuinely awful story beats and gameplay systems, and Blizzard’s scandals at the time - I think Shadowlands is fairly inarguably the worst time for Argent Dawn as a server. I know WoD had a similar problem where everything was taking place in some other dimension but from what I understood there was at least some reason/desire for characters to cross over.
Honestly though out of those three factors - with Shadowlands at least - I do think it was the lack of anything story related. Heck, we weren’t even sure if we were going to return to Azeroth as we knew it because of the whole wobbly time thing that was supposed to be a part of Shadowlands lore, or if the undead attacks carried on after the expac started, or literally anything.
I’m fairly sure with the context of what Millhouse mentioned it wasn’t humans being racist to orcs or trolls and dwarves going at it - I’m pretty sure that racism in this particular instance means real-world racism. Could be wrong, but that was my assumption.
WOD was funnily a massive high point for RP, because the stories weren’t bad, it was just a content drought for the main playerbase - so there was a big migration from PVE’ers to RPers, was beneficial.
I read it as the weird racism that tends to pop up when people play dark skinned elves/humans/etc, i.e. real-world racism too.
or
Choose.
I wholeheartedly agree that both sides take it too far and I’m fully aware I’m no saint when it comes to that type of discourse, but I also believe it is what you’re currently doing that breeds a lot of the animosity, i.e. using a language and a tone that comes across as exclusionary, condescending and high-horsey, ultimately leading to people like myself reacting so strongly to it.
Golden age is subjective, as many have already said in this thread. But for me, one ‘golden age’ of my own RP can essentially be summarised as “when me and all my friends had time to roleplay until 6am often”. I vividly remember roleplaying until the early hours of the morning on end back in MOP even when I had school the next day.
That being said, I’d say that now is also a golden age of roleplay for me. Maybe I don’t roleplay as much as I did, but every roleplay interaction I’ve had amongst players I’ve met throughout the year I’ve been roleplaying again has been memorable. There’s oft moments where I go “Man, I love this character.”. I imagine in a few years I’d look back at DF/TWW RP as fondly as I look at Cata, or MOP RP.
Just a final but positive thought to finish on, whilst things may be smaller now it’s in these times where lots of DMs, GMs etc hone their craft- so when the changes like lore happen - it’s going to be a lot of those players who have that confidence and ability to get stuff going. RP is fairly regenerative in its own way.
This is indeed what I meant, just to clarify. Probably the most famous example of this is the derogatory term coalskin which was thrown around on the regular by light-skinned humans to describe dark-skinned humans.
I believe the main point made in this thread was that the concept of a “Golden Age” is subjective, rather than a universally agreed-upon timeframe among roleplayers. Many factors influence these opinions - some consider the MoP era to be the peak, while others favor WoD. For some, it was the resurgence of enthusiasm brought by Legion, and for others, even the start of BfA holds that distinction.
For me personally, the Golden Ages were Vanilla up to the Cataclysm, then Legion.
Edit: Changed the Burning Crusade to Cataclysm, as my moldy mind is already getting the order of expansions mixed up
it hasn’t happened yet :feelsokayman:
For a lot of my friends, Cata-MoP was the Golden Age, and I heard a lot of stories from them. It’s kinda fun to read it’s similar for others - paints it into a whole “time of myth and legend” thing in a sense, for me.
I did not RP during those, but since I started early BfA, I genuinely don’t know if I could rightly elevate one period over the rest. I suppose BfA and TWW can equally count, for me. My fondest remembered RP moments are from either of the two, and there’s probably a ton more to come.
Ye that’s fair enough. I’ve had that happen on my own paladin too but granted, it was just once and done by some random elf in Stormwind. 
So I suppose things did get better on that front.
The man himself is just racist towards trolls. And rotters. But that’s the life of a northman for you.
this is the most ironic post i’ve ever seen lol
I rest my case.
Go roleplay a Dark Iron Dwarf in any scene involving Wildhammers. It can get pretty crazy.
There have definitely been ebbs and flows of activity on the server. But for myself, I perceived the golden age as definitely being from Cataclysm to Legion. I sadly lost touch with most RP since Shadowlands, and sadly my interest in RP had been flagging before then.
However, I’d be lying if I said I didn’t enjoy indulging myself with the politics of Stormwind RP for a while. Heck, I do want to try and get back into RP, but I feel like my characters no longer fit with my vibe that I want.
I don’t think anyone has been saying this to be honest. If it wasn’t the Great Fire of Stormwind or FFS STORMDOGS or the EDGE OF GLORY of Belf RP (DONT YOU DARE INSULT THE COMMUNITY!!111) there was always some sort of weird beef between people because RP always has a factor of ego in it and some people who play this game use it as a crutch for their own RL crippling lack of well, everything. Confidence, fulfilment etc.
Life got you feeling down? Collect a gang of goons, slap your own name on the community and make yourself feel big and important.
I was twenty one when MoP came out. I wasn’t a spring lamb with bright eyes and bushy tails (thanks Christie Golden). I had already been rping for seven years prior to that. I am well aware that there was a lot of nonsense in Vanilla through WoTLK (I partook in a lot of it) and even with the rose tinted goggles on I can safely say RP on AD was far better in the MoP - Legion phase (which is what a lot of y’all are saying it seems) than any other before or after?
Why? Well a community is a sum total of its parts. Those parts back in that period simply must have been of epic quality unlike the contemporary uncommon quality.
