He is obsessed with me because I dared to give him counter arguments on the german forum back a few years ago.
kinda your creepy geman stalker âŚ
no jszt joking, only hee taht people will know whos is he ealy and taht he ist for a eason the geman Class clown
Consider us warned soldier. We will handle it from here. o7
Yeah, similar.
They just seem to really not want to kill certain characters.
Sylvanas did nothing wrong. She was the victim of a bad writer.
you know you can THAT excusse for ANY Charakter to justify thrie actions, so nobod were wrong since all were inflicted by bad writing
This ^ is perhaps the gem that I have been looking for in all this.
We canât control what is given to us, so why is there such stigma in playing either side? Sure, emotions run high and all that but itâs a little jarring when itâs still happening many years later. Personally, the Horde can be seen as evil as it likes so long as it is defined to do so in a way that is nuanced and with substance. Same with the Alliance being so-called punchbags.
Itâs just a shame the community look beyond the story and would rather attack each other on things they have no control over. I am poor at analogies, but I feel like itâs almost classic playground behaviour of whoâs dad did what and what theyâll do the other dad.
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minus the alliance they got all the good writing and hate when their priviliges is attacked.
All the good writing? Like what?
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It was just one example. The Fourth War was started because Sylvanas felt like it anyway. And worse was the excuse Garrosh used to start the war against the Gilneans in Cata.
In fact, it wasnât long before a new war broke out between the two factions on Arathi when Marran launched an attack on the Korkrom guard.
Was there even an excuse used? I mean Gilneas at the time was NOT exactly an Alliance member which made them technically an easy target and a harbor in Eastern Kingdom would be a valuable strategic asset for the Horde. After all Alliance constantly used the supposedly Neutral City State of Theramore to transport their troops to Kalimdor. Also speaking of excuses why did SI7 agents try to capture Thrall and kill out everyone who saw them doing so, again? Why was the Camp Taraujo bombarded at the exact time where none of the combatants were present there (and so the only casualties were civilians)?
The good aspect of cataclysm was honestly the fact neither side was fully in the right. Something Blizzard sadly forgot about as they went on defaulting to putting all the blame on Horde.
I feel itâs also moreso they forgot that the Factions never really CARED about the reasonings of the other. They did it with their own biases, understandings, morals and personal creeds. It made the world feel bigger because of these differences in opinion and culture.
It made no side feel in the right nor in the wrong. Somewhere down the road, we lost that stubborn distinction and started to make understandings through RL notions. After that, it made the ways of the Horde automatically evil, non-sensical and therefore wrong.
A modern example here is how the Forsaken moved from having to raise undead as their only way of sustaining themselves so they could solidify their grasp over Lordaeron. It made sense -in their own terms- that Undeath was the only way for them to progress.
Sylvanas went on to try solving that when she was finally moved from being in the background/sidelines by exploring the potential of making her people immortal. Of course that was scrapped in favour of the Jailor storyline.
And from there on, it was suddenly wrong being one of the Forsaken. Because perceptions in-game changed to favour a more familiar perception, the nuance of undeath became wrong, immoral, evil etc.
In contrast, a great distinction that divided the viewpoints was discovered during the Battle of Dazarâalor. When the skies darkened, the red moon rose, Undead and spirits suddenly rose to defend their city. Dark magic was used everywhere as Bwonsamdi answered Rastakhanâs desperate plea.
It happens and then Greymane exclaims with shock that the Horde once again are using these profane magics to help. It shows poor understanding that the Zandalari / Horde do not see things the same way the Alliance does. And that was fine. It was great. It was nice to see mention of misunderstood culture clashing happening.
EDIT: All in all, Blizzard made the Horde care too much on opinions that didnât matter. Thus they lost their footing and their reasoning. The collapse was then followed by everything else that made the faction what it was supposed to be.
Thatâs true. I wonât say Sylvanas in Cataclysm was a good person but at least she had specific reasons. That and as Hillsbrad foothills showed Valkyrs were probably nicer alternative than what the rogue guy taking over what used to be the village showcased. But that went with the wind as the expansions went on. Later half of MoP had Garrosh embrace full on Villainy and using freaking Heart of the Old God to empower himself. WoD didnât do horde or more specifically Orcs any Favors as it shown that even back then uncorrupted Orcs were just a step from going on the same path weâd blame Fel Blood for before. And then afterwards BfA pushes every single war crime and atrocity onto the Horde while making sure Alliance stays crystal clear (at the cost of their dignity and becoming passive punching bags). And thatâs basically ending the Horde story because frankly we didnât have much relevancy in last three expansions really. Not that Horde has many Notable characters left with our leaders either dead, war criminals or absolutely bland.
Was not part of the alliance, he was neutral, and they declared war on him, claiming âthat they abandoned the current forsaken to the scourge.â
Another horde crime.
To be fair thatâs exactly what Gilneas did. The wall they built was specifically designed to keep them safe. Emphasis on them. As they withdrew from Alliance they wouldnât bother helping Lorderon during the scourge insistent on maintaining their isolation. Hell they left THEIR OWN PEOPLE at the mercy of the Undead Plague since Pyrewood Village and other places in the Silverpine were theirs. Very Heroic and noble, yes, yes
A poor excuse for someone like Garrosh, whose race attempted to invade the eastern kingdoms and set its evil sights on Lordaeron, to declare war years later on a neutral nation.
The funniest thing is that Garrosh didnât even care about the forsakens. He intended to suicide them against the Gilnean lines.
And while the Gilneans were obliterating the undeads, he was sneaking his orcs through the flanks.
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Depends on how you look at it.
It was the leader(s) of the horde who went âevilâ, and at some point the âgood part of the horde - including the player charactersâ stood up against this evil. So saying they âput all the blame on the hordeâ is not really accurate.
Besides, that happened twice. Just twice.
The rest of the time the horde and alliance either faced a great evil together or neither faction was evil; they just had different philosphies and values.
And sure: Maybe itâs time the alliance has the same problem; an evil leader who has to be defeated by alliance and horde alike. Iâm not denying thereâs a discrepancy there.
and that gave them justification to invade and slautgher and enslave the people, ebcause, you have a nice habor- so you have to die. 
series question- woud you tehj ok with, hey, urkaine, nice land you have, so, i want if, you have to die.
Or ehy, palestine, nice coatl strip, i want it, so your people must die or move so that I (israle) can have it
probly tehy dont know it was thrall on the ship- we acutly dot know and during that time he wanst âoficalyâ horde anymore and part of the shaman organizaion (or jsut bad writng to have an excue to push goblind towad horde)
ah shiâŚher we go again, its not liek we had THAT discosin +20 times and ist an dead horde, it was a legtimate miilatary target- and yes, THAT is confimed by bain himself (look at the wiki if you dont belive be)
also the commander wanted to avoid unnsesacary bloodshed so he had an excape rout for teh civilans but thos were run into quiboa, tehy waited until teh hunter were gone just to take it without resistencde to avoid casulties, and tbh, if you have teh chois of, fight against a full fore or wait until tehy leav the position- you woud chose teh latter because its more locical.
also, you as hord member have no right to compalin about ded ciclinas, shall i point out southshor ehich was bombaed to death with biolcigal wepans, Biolocigal wepans aginst cicilians.
tbh, lorderon was doomd, even gilnead wouc had helped, it wound have matters ebcause teh scoure and later legion woud still habve swoop though them.
morally despicable- yes but what was the alternitve- fighting an uphill battle, let the scour march throug pyrwodd and teh swap dicetly into gineas which woud be a lost batte and woud have at the end bolster teh rank of the scourge with new-fresh corpes.
To be honest, orcs donât need demon blood to be evil. After the fall of Blackhand at the hands of Orgrim Doomhammer, an uncorrupted orc, rather than attempting to negotiate with the besieged city of Stormwind, decides to finish what Guldan started. Not content with the conquest of Stormwind, he attempts a genocide against the dwarves of Kazâmodan and the gnomes of Gnomeregan to seize their natural resources, in preparation for a full-scale invasion of the eastern kingdoms.
He also didnât hesitate to invade Quelâthalas, even though they initially remained on the sidelines, to gain the favor of the Amani, who, in exchange for the complete destruction of the elves, would join the horde in their campaign.
The orcs, with or without the Burning Legion, are one of the vilest race. They descend from a being whose sole purpose was destruction.
Baine who also forbade Taurens to retaliate and branded those that went on to help as exiles from Thunder Bluff. I am aware that even then he came as Alliance apologist. Even if it was a military target it doesnât change the fact the entire place WAS attacked while none of the Horde Warriors were there and the only opening that Alliance left for the escaping Horde Civilians lead straight into freaking Quillboars that would then proceed to kill whoever they caught living less than a handful survivors. Hell the commander was so incompetent he couldnât even keep his own men from pillaging and ransacking the place. And to think all of that could be avoided if the bunch of greedy dwarves didnât decide to start strip mining on Taurens Land.
So when Alliance does it itâs valid strategy and proper warfare. Geez the Bias is strong in this one and as much as Iâd love to say otherwise the reactions just confirms it
Keep saying that. Greymane didnât even freaking consider I dunno⌠Letting those that were outside the wall IN. That was all he needed to do to save his people but screw them. He and majority of nobility were safe behind their giant Wall. I donât say heâd have to freaking fight the Scourge but not leave his own citizens stranded.
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