Shadowy duel is something that have been asked to remove or rework for long time, and it only affects sub. If they overtune assa again with flat dmg buff for example, then sub having or not having shadowy duel honor talent has no impact on rogue as whole per se. Personally Im happy If they remove it as now they can give sub something eventually without it becoming as broken by having duel too. Duel was always problematic skill. I hope they do something about the outlaw rng design and something next that separates sub and sin from each other more.
Rogue specs are doing great in terms of dps matters, however the gameplay has been worst ever, been playing rogues since TBC, this expansion is by far the worst gameplay as a rogue.
They even changed Thistle Tea to be self cast below 30 energy, better get an actual rogue dev who understands what rogues needs. its a sh!tshow going with the rotation and rng procs, too many buttons, watching energy not to drop below 30.
Rogues dont need buff, they need a rework.
5 Likes
I always hated Thistle Tea and energy management. I feel like since the introduction of the global cooldown, a lot of melee resources like energy feel pointless. Back in Vanilla, energy made sense as a constraint to prevent you from non-stop spamming main abilities, but in modern WoW it’s just a legacy system that doesn’t really serve a gameplay purpose.
I only played Assa rogue a tiny bit on an alt this expansion, so I don’t really know what I’m talking about. Isn’t the automatic Thistle Tea drinking a nice quality of life feature? Or do you dislike it because it makes min-maxing burst windows more difficult? Is it even relevant in PvE, or is this only a PvP thing to help you stun-lock people for 30 seconds?
In Dragonflight I tried Outlaw and the rotation was a complete mess, APM was too high, and Roll the Bones RNG felt absolutely terrible. In TWW, I only played a bit of Assa. I’d say the rotation feels OK now, but I really dislike how their damage breakdown contains 50+ different abilities. Blizzard keeps thinking “more is better”, but I think the opposite is true. I’d rather have only 5 meaningful abilities that deal damage instead of 50 of which most don’t have an impact on their own. I couldn’t care less about all the stuff that deals <1% overall damage.
2 Likes
As far as PVP goes Rogues are more than fine, Outlaw and Assa are doing good in all brackets, and that can be seen in Bracket representation, as we are somewhere in the middle, except for SUB spec which has to be played a certain way and take DR in account, the class is in a good spot in PVP.
The elite players are a very small percentage of the actual pvp population so they should not determine the overall state of the class.
One cool thing is that every spec of Rogue plays differently from each other, that`s a plus.
One downside is Outlaw, which although well optimized, it`s identical to DF so it feels like you are just playing the same class as most of Fatebound is passives.
No idea about PVE 
It feels like an entirely different game for somebody who only does pvp from gearing to builds.
In WPVP Rogue will always be good if you put in the time.
Change-wise, yep, we did not get a lot, but "if its not broke, don't fix it" just for the sake of change. When other classes are overturned, it may give the impression that your class is underpinned, which is not the case. Sub is, however, a spec that has only one way to play, and thats coordinate DR with your burst and toolkit.
If you personally are having trouble with a class, it does not automatically mean everybody is going through it, High-end PVPers/Streamers, are a minority of the player base and the peak lvl of rated PVP is in a way a different beast, as they all play at the best but thats a small percentage of people.
Most people you fight in rated below 2k are normal players and in WPVP most people you will face are mostly at the same lvl as you.
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i like slice and dice changes
ou have it now while using finisher 
i hated to cast it before
not because of lazy but because it just dont fit me
i want to spend CP on big finishers not for some memebuildup swingspeed
im happy its baked now in talents, i prayed it for years
sure if u play PVP mage can steal this buff from you so better have it on skill bar,
yet still its nice change
second thing ambush was absolute CANCER to deal with
u have to bind 2 buttons to mutiliate and one if u proc ambush
i was askin why ? wtf it just not switch skillbar ?
not sure about thistle tea changes, i like it situational use as a mastery trinket 
and FINALLY animacharged stupid points are reworked. thanks god they simplified them
i havent mained rogue entire dragonflight cause it was borked
now in TWW im casually enjoying my rogue 
Just macro tea into shiv for the Kingsbane window and then forget about it. We mainly press tea for its energy component rather than its mastery anyway.
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good idea
i allso wanted to mention AoE garrote and sudden demise
such a cool talents we got on assa
as for the pirate rogue … still bloated still too many procs, buttons to play for soo little rewards too much paying attention instead of watching enemy bleed xd
u must sweat 4 times harder than assa to beat decent geared assa in dps
wich is unfair imo
I mean, its what one is generally advised to do if one cba paying attention to the tea. Most rogues just ignore the tea to begin with. Its like a dps gain similar to outlaw rogues using a dagger in the OH by optimizing it perfectly but tied to actually having to pay attention like not pressing an ability if you are below 90 energy and as such most just macro it so its always ready for kingsbane since both share the same CD and then you call it a day.
You mentioned earlier that dagger should be used in OH for faster poison application.
Does it mean it’s better to use lethal poison on dagger, to get fast wound poison stacks, for example?
Poisons get applied by both your weapons (and your abilities etc). Its a buff.
It seem to be theme that affects healers and most dps classes aswell for many expansions now, and then there is few with very simplistic design and mostly just pressing 123 type of rotation and doing more dps/heals than the rest. Tuning and class designing just seem to be completely nonsensical in general imo. Its no wonder people rotate to whatever is good for the moment when balance and class designs are this bad, which shouldnt even be the case cosidering its mmorpg. Some content its not even viable to play what classes they would like to play if their class happen to be “unlucky” for the current season or expansion even like we have had in past that some class just remain performing bad for entire expansion cause balance and class designs in general are bad in wow like always been since vanil.
Yeah, on my holy priest it’s also like that. Flash of Light is the main source, and the 20+ other healing sources all feel irrelevant.
It’s stupid IMO by Blizzard to create so many damage/healing contributing things. Those tiny damage contributors all feel completely meaningless on their own. I see no real upside in them, but tons of downsides, such as making balancing basically impossible for Blizz, and spamming my screen with numbers, so that I can’t see what’s actually going on unless I turn off floating damage numbers. If Blizz would remove all those tiny output contributing abilities/effects/talents/etc. and shift their power to the main abilities, the game would be more fun and Blizz would have a much easier time balancing the game.
2 Likes
Some say its one of the reasons why people enjoy classic cause there dont need to wait dozen procs to incur before can then line dozen another modifiers via long and short cd to do meaningful dmg for short window with all possible modifiers stacked. There is also so overtuned spec to be found each season that no matter what the player do on it, it will always perform 3x better than some weaker specs, even if the player messed up everything on his setup. In general I would like to see less modifiers in future. I dont think we will ever see better balance or class designing but less modifiers is realistical they could provide, its been 20 years with the balance issues or nonsensical class designs. Im not optimistic much will ever change related that atleast 
i just learned to make my own talent trees
like for example my priest hate playing around void ?
go oracle. igaf what some icy veins site says
(i respect these sites and i know how to sim myself ofc)
are you tired of casting prayer of mending ? again go oracle
and so i do on my every alt
i have 2k rio dimon hunter who dong give a f using either momentum nor essence break
i play WoW for MY OWN SATISFACTION
this is why i will never touch current pirate rogue
even if i own OG and Legion thunderfurrys i wanna roll em
i cant cause i dont want my wrist hurt.
class ballance team are absolute clowns, like they let paladin unpunished on prot for months and they sudendly buff dk from nowhere xD
like lmao
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Is that something that works good? I adhere to those guides to get the most out of my class but often I’m not a fan of what the good choices are.
sure it works !
people who actually write guides for maxroll/icyveins trying many talents combo and simulationcraft. i am like them but i dont seek out max dps XD
sites with builds are cool but dont follow them 100%
there is an old saying "always sim yourself "
for example warrior, i dont like ravager i dont take it
thunderous roar i hate it too, so i go spear. i like ascethic u can get old kyrian look even (before update)
i find some pasive talent
-5% dps ? cool
key still timed
and no need to deal with something i dont want to cast
For rogues just stick with WoWhead / Class discord if you want to do yourself any favor. The Discord devs are the ones writing the guides for WoWhead as well as doing the sims for raidbots anyway.
That and I am biased against Icy-Veins ever since they screwed up the sub guide for HFC for nearly the entire patch.
+1 to this
Ravenhold discord for rogues
people there actually answer your question not making jokes out of you
i belive wowhead writer for rogue is Fuu, u can even catch him there and he is super nice helpful guy
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Fuu is only doing Subtlety. Whispyr is doing Assa and no clue who was doing Outlaw again.
2 Likes
Well that sounds pretty nice to be honest.
There are some classes I like but the meta talents aren’t that interesting. But sadly that does not change that my demo lock is still unplayable for me since tyrant is even integrated into the hero talents so there is no avoiding that guy ^^
I might sit down today and check out some skill trees again to see if I can find some fun non meta stuff I don’t do m+ anyway and for Delvs and the occasional raid everything should be fine.
Btw you are a rogue and you seem to know what you talk about. What’s the state of the class in tww. I always avoid all the energy classes cause Im Not good at Not being starved all the time
1 Like