Where is Anduin's story going? What's the theme?

Lore Story
1

So, when Golden first started defining the character Anduin would become, he already was already a moral bus… erm, the voice of morality. Before The Shattering he had no role (except for the Comics, where he didn’t have much in common with the Anduin in the game), and according to Blizzard, there wasn’t anything planned for him, before they saw what Golden did with him. Well… what she did in her novels was to make him the strongest proponent for nonviolence and peace we have in the World of Warcraft. Anduin didn’t need to be taught the value of peace, and the value of each individual life, he knew them by heart (or rather by pen…).

Going at it from a modern perspective, there weren’t really many moral lessons for him to learn. Indeed, to many players he seemed to be the anachronistic voice of modern morality. So to have any development at all, they chose to confront him with situations where his moral convictions were sorely tested. He was made to learn the same lesson twice, onece with Garrosh, once with Sylvanas, and supposedly got away with the conclusion that while most people might be good, some cannot be reached with reason and moral considerations.

Now this in itself is interesting. Teaching the voice of modern morality that some people are bad and need punishment instead of convincing, and making it feel true, is also a message to the player. And not necessarily one I would have expected from the modern kind of writers. Enemies of peace must be stopped with all necessary violence. Well, okay then.

But it only got darker from here. With BfA came the war. And Anduin took up the sword. Literally and figuratively. He led the war and had the Alliance strike back as good as they got. He still tried to minimize civilian casualties, but he willingly made decisions that he knew would cause them. He still thought of ways to end the war, going so far as to free Saurfang, but he was commanding one side. We could probably still easily call him a good king, maybe even a good man, but certainly not an innocent anymore.

And with Shados Rising we reached quite a low point. Anduin was close to a breakdown there, questioning his moral compass and condoning the torture of civilians for information. In the end he even used some dark magic, which Blizzard had especially requested the author to put in there. Seems like we are supposed to doubt if he is one of the good guys anymore, just like he is.

And most recently he was kidnapped by a duo of genocidal torturers who want him to play a part in theirn nihilistic and/or utopian plans for a future, so… to get him to join the Dark Side.

So where is this going? Any failure of Anduin is also a failure of what he represents, which is mostly hope for peace and overcoming differences. I find it hard to believe that the authors are consciously going in that direction.
On the other hand, there is not much room for him to triumph over adversity, either. The game is build around conflict, and while Anduin can be a voice for peace in the world, he can never be a partiularly succsessful one, except if we will only fight generic evil in the future… which might be possible, I guess. But more likely would be that this would lead directly back to where he started, without any clear lessons learned at all, for anyone.

Alternatively, he might be set up to reaffirm his believes and then be written out of the story, by dying for them as a hero, or ascending some way to some thing. This might actually be the best outcome for affirming the message of peaceful heroism, but I find it a bit hard to imagine them getting rid of Anduin…

Thoughts?

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I’m not really worried about that. Several Horde leaders have also failed in their beliefs, but that didn’t stop the Horde from kinda sorta staying the same. In fact, that’s one of my peeves. The Horde is being pushed as this “honorable faction that values strength and freedom above all else”; and yet every time some genocidal Warchief starts wrecking things, most of the Horde turn into good little boys and girls who do exactly what the Warchief commands, honorable or not.

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3

Their values are not the authors’ values, though. Saurfang was wrong to attack the Night Elves, which is why we spent an addon seeing him looking sadly around until he understood the point, winning a duel while losing in the contest of strength. The writers don’t value orcish honor and strength. The solution that’s presented as right was always to try everything you can to maintain peace, and to stand up to oppressors. That’s what the writers stand behind, since it is quite obvious from a modern perspective.

Which is why I find it much more interesting with Anduin. Anduin already embodied quite a modern morality - even a progressive one, with state help and tolerance for all. If that fails in the World of Warcraft, that means the values don’t work in that world. That’s a critique of those values as utopian. And I wouldn’t exactly mind, but I have a hard time believing that’s what they are going for.

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Thing is, values “failing” is not an eternal failure. Like in reality, also in fictional worlds, these things, (if done well, mind), go back and forth. I mean in a single-shot game, you can have a “definite conclusion” where one set of values “wins” and the other one “loses”, and that’s that, roll the credits.

In an MMO that evolves with time, you need to have this dynamic where sometimes the warmongers get their time, and sometime the peacemakers do. Because otherwise your world gets stale, stagnant, and not very interesting. You can’t have a set of values that just “wins” and that’s that. Unless you want to actually end it (and still piss off half of your users).

5

Yes. Which is why it is quite a stupid idea to insert a representative of your own ideals in there instead of more imperfect value systems like the orcs’ or the old Alliance’s or… about everyone’s but Anduin’s. Since one can’t win, you let them lose while showing their flaws. Orcish honor failed as a system of morality, and was buried with Saurfang. Everyone learned something and they can now try out the next imperfect system.

What’s the lesson we would learn from Anduin’s failure that these authors would want us to learn?

Edit:
And to be clear… if they were consciously moving away from doing moral allegories I would be thrilled. I just don’t expect them to be doing that, which is why I’m assuming they are still keeping an eye on the message for now.

6

I don’t know. To me that main message I get from the “faction” side of the story in the game is that we have:

  1. Story is about “finding common humanity”, getting over grudges, forgiveness, cooperation for the greater_good™;
  2. Faction division in the game mechanics, which is described as the core of the game.

So, I supposed to see how Jaina touches Thrall, but I can’t go and grab Kiro, or flirt with Geya’rah.

I see the story about fighting together, but when I play troll droid I can’t join another gnome, or when I play draenei mage, I can’t cast “slow fall” on a clumsy tauren falling in a yet another temple in Bastion, even though a degree of good™ supposedly should be high in such actions in Shadowlands.

I see that we must forgive each other. And, I don’t know. Last time my troll tried to get to Anduin, it seemed that Stormwind guards did not get the memo.

So, I have a gameplay that says “it’s good to be apart”, and a story of “no, we must be together!!1”

But I have no interest in complaining (although sometimes it’s oddly satisfying, but I’m afraid, rather taxing on the accident victims). I just take some notes as I play. What seems to work, what seems odd, etc. Which game dev is not the area of software I am related to, how not to create contradicting design is a valuable lesson. And on value of the feedback.

You’re funny, I like it. But I have to decline another doze of ice cream. It took a month to gather all the materials for the exorcism last time.

This is the point where I have a desire to think about not using transport capabilities of the draenei tech, about no preparation to deal with the blight (although what am I talking about? It’s rather clear, Sylvanas would never ever use the blight, it would be against who she is and has no presedents in the past), about absurdity of actions against Zandalari, and others, but maybe I shouldn’t.

I would say, that his actions made me ask overall, what is the purpose of the existence of the alliace. If you take a look at the elf point of view, they see themselves as betrayed. So, is this what another race would seek to join the alliace? To see a good king say “hey, you must like each other. Now!” after having civilians and children burned alive?

Yes, I think the part where he was called “not my king” because of his failure to protect the undead who wanted to defect into the alliance actually got him rather hard. But only time will tell how will this affect him in the long run, if at all.

Tell the full story. About not willing to do it. About seeking another way. About how conveniently Jaina gets cooperation instead of testing by the writer of how she would act should the life of, say, Katherine be dependent on her getting the info within a couple of hours.

I do not think it’s fair to portray that part of the story as if 2 maniacs, like in Shivering Isles, go around, torture people asking “hm, how would you evaluate that kind of pain on a scale from 1 to 10?”

Oh, come on. He used mind control in MoP. I can’t remember, but sure he used Shadow even in Cata. For the greater_good™, of course? Would you doubt our good king? Surely mind control is a path to a better world. Ask the blood elves.

I don’t know. I’m actually glad he looked like a human for the first time. It only required “not Golden” to write the book.

Besides, for a morally grey story, and the devs do like to use this phrase, it would be good to have, if possible, no good guys. Because, you know, their presence automatically makes everybody else not_good.
:wink:

IMO nowhere. We’re not allowed to criticize his decision, or ask why on Azeroth would he even be a military leader aka “high king” on top of Stormwind leadership position.

It’s like with the night warrior. Where is it going? Well, to the question “do they want vengeance or to build a better world”, aka why even bother. Guess which of those options supports the faction division we have as the core of the game, and which - contradicts it?

Is this a good idea, and divide the alliance in the process, or he should seek for unity? Those are not compatible, by the way.

Tyrande Whisperwind:
Teldrassil burned because I chose to spare Saurfang’s life.
Countless innocents were murdered. Entire families erased in moments.

Nah, there are other. Most of current horde (kind of), Jaina got back into Thrall fanfic mode, about everyone were on board with the peace treaty, details of which we don’t even know, which is fitting for a champion, including Shandriss, so technically… every race depicted that way? There is almost the entire cast to use for the same exact goal.

Unfortunately, I have to agree.

Where?..
Like, I skipped a lot, but my leveling experience is:

  • Khadgar saying that everyone should be forgiven, and by the end, instead of proving his claim and actively going toward his goal of peace when it was vulnerable, he just ran away, and likely won’t have to ever tell to those, who had the souls of their loved ones twisted and destroyed in the Maw, that him running was the best he could do
  • Jaila after being sold as a “warbringer”, went into “forgive all mode” and jumped onto the same train; no questions if maybe Daelin was not totally not reasonable, or what is the middle ground, or actually to have any conflict around it, other than making Ashvane a comic level villain.
  • All the talking about night warrior and justice, just to backpedal to “will they pick revenge or a better_world™”; all the talking about “forbidden ritual”, “consuming vengeance”, etc.

And even Shadowlands started with moralizing Bolvar with his “no old grudges, we must be together!11” (only not to be able to play that way).

So, no. I have to totally disagree. The game IMO contradicts itself by, on one hand, having a faction division that is supposedly better to preserve, and the narrative going against it and telling, that being together is better. Story wise the factions are outdated and rather pointless aka sunk cost fallacy.

I think I should take a look at my wall of text habit…

gl hf

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7

Knowing the writers, they will probably make him go brainwashed / evil for a short while then we have to kill him off, and just before that, he comes to his senses and makes some heroic sacrifice. Probably saving Sylvanas who is redeemed somehow, with all the genocide forgiven.

I REALLY hope this is not where the story is going, but given the writing style, themes and the complete lack of good ideas in the writing of Shadowlands, I’m like 80% percent this is going to happen.

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8

The theme is that you can be born super rich, a noble and have super secret light powers because you are god chosen one. How dare the poor citizen of stormwind question their leader when he is the chosen one. Westfall should be grateful that their king is using the light for good, who cares about the economy issue and tax issue lmao, not like the king has to do any king job…a heir? lmao no don’t worry he is going to marry out of “love”.

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9

I think far more likly they will make ANduin the chosen god king/empereor chosen of the light/void and all cosmsic forces and realms and chosen ruler of the Multiverse or soemthing.

10

Well if they do THAT, I hope they have a new game in the works.

11

westfall was receiving aid that was stolen by the reborn defias brotherhood it’s hardly the fault of the king that vanessa vancleef stole the supplies meant for the people vanessa can be directly blamed for most of westfall’s problems

12

Test test test tes tes fjekdbfk

13

I mean the fact the Horde has fallen back on the Nuremberg Defence twice already just shows how awful favouritism towards the big red fash they are actually is.

The Horde is literally the Blizz Dev team’s awkward toxic masculinity and blatantly racist pressure release valve. I mean why else is the “FOR THE HORDE” cringe cry you hear every blizzcon so loud?

14

well realistically the horde would have been executed or put back in camps by now they’ve shown time and again that they learn nothing consequences what are those are they tasty? the level of writing we have makes fanfics look competently written

15

Dismantle the Horde, literally said by Jaina. Completely logical thing. Remove the two faction system (WoW is the only MMO where this is hardwired in these days) and symbolically unite the world under the Azerothian Alliance.
Make intra-alliance conflict a thing, though considering Blizzard writers, or rather to blame the creative developers, have the nuance of a walnut.

Unless it’s directly bothering my immersion or character’s story i ignore most of Blizzard’s lore for what it is, a hack job.

16

I would kinda question if there even is any story they have in mind. And if they have one, if it will play out at all. Looking on it in a general way, it feels like most of the story progression they had planned out for their characters never really saw the light of day, despite being advertised.

  • We never saw the “dark secret” of Yrel during WoD
  • We never saw the Horde “confront what it means to be horde, when faced with the Iron Horde.”
  • We never saw Sylvanas struggle between her own goals and the greater good of the Horde during Legion, despite it being advertised as such on their website.
  • In the BFA promo page, there was this talk of Anduin being rash and bold because he feels he needs to prove himself as a man… yet in the actual storyline we got, nothing in that regard ever happens.
  • Warbringer Jaina made it seem that Jaina would struggle with the Idea that her father and his warlike path was right after all, yet again, non of this ever played out.

So i dont know, maybe they have plans for Anduin. Maybe they want to explore his darker side, maybe confront him with the failings of his belief. Maybe have him being tempted by the void. But maybe, none of this ideas ever leave the writing room or get scrapped along the way, for whatever reason.

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17

She definitely did become more pragmatic and less idealistic.

As for the rest; pretty much, yes.

18

Than when? The problem with Jaina’s character was always that she hard a hard time having consistent positions between two meetings.

But to be fair, I guess the Thros storyline was meant to depict her dealing with her darkness. It’s just that it wasn’t particularly dark in the first place.

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19

That’s what I mean though. I count both Jainas, the one “Oh but we can have peace forever”, and the one “Destroy the Horde and it will all be good” to be an idealistic incarnation. She just swung the pendulum all the way to the other side of “ideal”.

The Jaina post-Drustvar seems to be a lot more grounded, and not thinking she knows best all the time. Doesn’t seem to be throwing quite as many tantrums, either. I agree though, they could have played more on that story line. The darkness was definitely there, but it was over too quick to really delve deep into it.

I will say, from main WoW cast, she’s one of my favorite characters when it comes to development. Even if she has had hiccups along the road, it still feels…organic, you know? The wide eyed idealist turned misanthropic cynic (and again, misanthropic cynicism is just another ideal) but eventually finding some sort of a balance between the two.

I even liked Sylvanas…right up until the point when she “totally didn’t know” what Putress was planning.

20

Really? In the council after Dazar she explains how they shouldn’t hit the Horde (in the war), when it is down, because they wouldn’t be better than Sylvanas if they did. This is the same sanctimonious crap she always pulls. And we haven’t had much time with her since then to see if she will now be consistent in any way… I guess putting her in the torture tower would be a great excuse for another flip…

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