Who enjoys M+ now?!

I am farming dragonskin mount in LFR/Normal/Heroic, 1 +M för The Great Vault, Time Rift transmog weekly and pet quest/daily. This expansion is very thin, not much to do if you compare with SL.

PvE is still amazing in wow and we are trully spoiled by it. Not a lot of games has so much pve content, stories, raids, dungeons, etc.

I wish pvp had more meaningful content, that would include guilds, bigger battles in world, territories control by guild (that would give benefits), etc.

Now we have one borring game mode (arena), which gets dull and borring very quickly (I’ve heard solo shuffle queue times are 20mins, so if it takes 20mins to match 6 players, I wouldn’t say pvp is in a good state as well). WoW in general needs some fresh wind, both in pve and pvp.

PvP is side content in WoW at best, and you even prove it yourself - 10maps in 20years. Blizzard basically throws you a bone every 2 years, instead of developing meaningful and actually interesting pvp content.

If I haven’t played couple trully pvp orianted mmorpg games - maybe I would look at wow pvp differently. But I was spoiled by epic 200vs200, 100vs100, etc. battles for castles, world bosses and territories across the game world, I just can’t see any meaningful and impactful pvp in WoW world. I tried several times getting into arenas - maximum I could endure was 1hour, it’s so increadibly borring (and I had high win rates at these low ratings, so this should be “fun”).

Until WoW brings meaningful open world pvp, and more meaningful content regulary - I can’t see pvp moving upwards from the 3rd place content (1st being m+, 2nd being raid). Heck, even pet battles are getting more content than pvp :smiley: I played games where pvp is the main focus, and it really feels. Raid bosses on these games were basically big target dummy sponges and your main task was do enough dps (so you can outdps boss natural HP regen) and have 1 tank that can take at least 3+ hits from boss. These epic bosses would take 30-40mins to kill, but pvp for them sometimes lasted 8+ hours (basically who controls spawn location gets to kill the boss and fights for spawn locations were very fierce, and boss respawn was set amount of hours plus few randomized hours (144+6, 144+1.5, etc.).

Hope you enjoy our country ^^

Anyways, playing M+ on and off with friends and it’s honestly kinda fun as long as I don’t take it seriously at all and just enjoy the process. Getting more into healing as holy which is also one of the things I always wanted to do before. I can’t see myself dpsing it though :') Overall going casual has been my best decision since 9.2. Done the occasional low keys, even a bunch of 20s. Also helping newbies get into the game & high end content and it’s just so much more enjoyable than sweating 22s and higher like i did in previous seasons, also diversity in content helps so much.
As an advice try to take a step back and see if you’d enjoy it more, or take a break or try something else. There’s no point in just ruining your day over this.

I can call the fact that people play the same specs boring(same with pve), otherwise agree. It’s always engaging. Whether it’s fun for x person or not that’s a whole different thing. But you’re not really achieving much by calling the content that people enjoy boring, long as they like it that’s what matters, right?

Thats what happens if you start and desing M+ around the idea that “Tanks should feel pressured” and “healing is to strong”

Then you create a Tank that CAN tank again (hello guardian, oh i forgott he also has lay on hands on a 20 sec CD) and create a Healer that actually CAN heal (Hello HPally)

In terms of Healers. Holy Paladin is not broken strong compared to other healers.
It is the M+ dungeons that MAKES Holy Paladin strong compared to other healers.
Why?
Movement.
Crazy Burstdamage
The need to “Top” everyones HP in 2-3 seconds.

How to adress Healers?
How about this:
Give them MORE TIME to heal something.
There is no reason at all that DDs need to die in 2 hits (or 3 seconds). You could increase the number of skills that deals random or targeted group/player damage IF you tune down the damage Spikes. (let the healers heal more stuff and not only burstspikes)
If you create an Environment where you need to TOP your DDs at all times and “only” have 2-3 seconds todo so.
What do you think will happen to healer balance if a Healer need to CAST a skill and needs to move?
Where is the “Option” to give your DD a Hot when he is at 85% and just let the Hot heal him full? This Option dont exist. He is at 89% gets a hit and dies, course that hit took 90% of his HP out of him. Bad desing, to much Diablo hack n slay.

How to adress Tanks?
Take all those overtuned Selfhealing away.
They are Tanks okay, they SHOULD be able to take Hits (and not flatline in 2 hits)
But there is NO reason at all that Tanks “must” be able to heal themself more then a healer ever could.

And to the Exodia DD combination:
That is what happens if you have Hyperscaling DDs and the option to STACK to many Buffs.
PI is way way WAY to strong and there are good reasons to say “erase that skill” course it is so strong that is actually can become toxic in a group if everyone want it.

Supporter Roles are fine and a nice adittion to the game. They are just hard to balance around. If the meta shifts to a 1,1,1,2 combination that we NEÈD a LOT more Supporter classes .)

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with real balance and no mindless gameplay with tons of addons, billions of eye cancer effects and 20+ buttons.

bgs were fun many years ago. but now??? pff…

I enjoy it when everything goes well, and i enjoy it more when it’s not my key.

Guess what the problem is?

S priest got a st buff and an aoe nerf, because it was too effective in aoe, and not strong enough in st, simple as that.

Blizzard should invest more resources in pvp so you and 14 other people that play arena can have good time.

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Slapface has a tendency of making terrible points when it comes to pve.

You could say that it’s a defining trait.

I don’t even dislike pvp, but these people, man, they are something else.

A +5 is idd easy in m+

Gdudu, Hpala, Aug, Mage, SP.

Next question.

In bfa or SL I had to get gladiators badge for progress so I played arena for the very first time ever. I got to rival and then I started encountering boosters with multiple glad titles. Great experience for someone who’s new to pvp.

Also if I had to blame anything, I’d blame this braindead community. I started playing a couple of days ago again and got to almost 1900 rio in 2 days and now I’m hard stuck until tomorrow because 1) I am not getting invited to higher keys due to my rio, 2) I can’t get more precious rio points until fortified week, 3) people want 3k rio for +18 which is, hehe, stupid.
M+ could use a massive revamp. How keys work, how we get rio, no key depletion, universal keys that have their level so I can put universal +18 in any dungeon and just run it, leaderboards with better reward structure etc. This stale meta is just boring.

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Pvp in wow is bad, if you find pvp in wow enjoyable lol. There are way better games where the pvp is a way better haha

Def agree with that, especially the part that m+ does indeed need some very important changes.

It’s not perfect, at all.

It’s a good idea, but there are problems.

Indeed, anyone would think that it’s subjective what people find fun to do.

I find PvP boring, however, most of us realise that different people like different things and there is a level of challenge available in the main three pillars.

You might be right.

But before 10.1.5 ALL healers were equally capable, and it was equally hard to “top people up in 2-3 s”.

By making 1 healer significantly more OP than the rest messed up the healthiest healer meta I have seen in recent history.

And nerfing incoming damage wont change anything. The only thing that will change is that people will complain witn 27s instead of with 24s.

Bliss should NOT have done the HPala rework in the middle of a patch. It should have done it at the start of S3 with a new dungeon pool and combining other healers rework (like shaman, like monk). Now the only solution is to revert HPala chagnes (which they wont) or buff by 10-20% the HPS of other healers… Which is significant.

Which translates to: Their idea of “make healing hard” is DEAD on the water. They cant escape the NEED to buff other healers anymore. They HAVE to.

What is SUPER anoying is that they take weeks to do the OBVIOUS change that is needed. And on the meantime, I cant play basically…

Yea i don’t think most people are asking to make healing harder to be honest.

I never noticed such a massive lack of healers as of recently, usually they are about as hard to find as a tank, but right now? They are definitely much harder.

I enjoy M+ now, and I have lots of friends who enjoy it as well.

I do agree there’s a healer shortage, though.

Isdren did have a point. Healing is not hard per se. Its the combination of abilities that makes healing hard.

For example:

  1. Uldaman 2nd boss (one of many): Totem hits HARD. But you also have the small adds doing 30k damage to everyone. Funny thing is that people can get hit simultaneously by more than 1 add. So 1 person can get hit by 2 adds (60k damage) and rarely by 3 (90k damage). Not much damage IMO (most DD have ~500k health). But double/triple damage + totem? VERY hard… Plus de caster add… 1 cast of those hits for 200-300k damage.

  2. Any pull, of any dungeon where people can get hit simultaneously (as in 1-2s intervals) with 2 mechanics at once. Making it a 1-shot UNLESS you are constantly topping people up to 100%.

If there is anything that Blizz can do in S3 is to make pulls/bosses smarter. Nor just cast random stuff because that is what makes it hard and causes 1-shots. OR, alternatively, reduce the amount of casts in general. That way you only have to CC/control 1/2 adds/casts.

But on the meantime, if people only want is HPala… if there was a healer shortage now then there will be even more. Because if Blizz does not fix HPala soon, me and many others are done until S3. Il go and play something else.

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Agreed. 2nd season in a row we get a rework in the middle of the season. I have absolutely no idea what blizzard wants with hpala. They changed everything after BFA into SL with the holy power rework already too. DF full rework. Halfway season s1 rework, halfway s2 rework. Come on. I am done with all that nonsense. Leave it for what it is. Buff and nerf here or there, done. There wasn’t that much wrong with how the spec worked going into DF s1. Nothing after that was needed.

Also, tank could use a bump to threat generation.

So dps will have a harder time taking threat.

People say “just wait” But dude, first of all, no thanks, i play dps because i wanna do damage right now, not because i wanna do damage after the tank has full threat, second, sometimes that’s just not an option. Waiting around a few seconds, while the pack does aoe damage, and you have a prio add is NOT AN OPTION. Third, it’s just not fun.

Also it puts more stress on everyone, not just healers.