They became enemies during War3 when Grommash cut some trees in Ashenvale and the night elves attacked them but who is to be blamed for that. While sometimes I think the night elves should have just talked with them because due to timeline changes with Broxigar they knew what the Orcs are and not to forget that Grommash at that time didn’t knew that night elves lived there and holded it sacred and didn’t know that the night elves existed but Grommash probably wouldn’t have listened to them either if they asked him if he could leave their forest in peace because of his bloodlust at the time due to Mannoroth being so close to him. I am really curious what you guys think who striked first, I personally think the night elves are kinda to blame but also not really because their actions ultimately forced Grom to drink Mannoroths blood again and to kill Cenarius ( another reason they hate the orcs and the Horde) but on the other hand because of Mannoroth being close to Grommash he probably would have attacked them .
his name is Grommash Hellscream the traitor who damned the orcs to the fel juice … not once but twice then the orcs had the idiocy to claim he saved them … hahahhaha
Soooo … you basically say if NEs woudl have just talked to them everything would have been fine, orcs would have left Ashenvale?
That worked in Classic or Cata pretty well and in Mop and in BFA. In fact NEs were never the aggressors and while WC3 with teh timeline change is pretty problematic from a story point of view, Orcs still invaded (not knowingly) their sacret forests and Elves have mistaken them for demons (which ironicly they were before).
Fact is:
There have been 4!!! Situations where things were sorted out and orcs still couldn’t leave theri damn hands off Ahsenvale … no matter what. They even were allowed the whole of Azshara to satisfy their need of lumber.
No orcs are to blaime period. They have proven 4 times in a row.
Well I said that Grom probably would not had listened and still would have attacked them
I know only that Ashenvale was attacked 3 times by them once by Grom then Garrosh and then Sylvanas but I don’t remember 4 times.
That’s actually a good point I forgot about that part.
But can you really blame them for the 1st time because they didn’t know that the forest was inhabited by the night elves. For every other time they attacked Ashenvale, I have to agree with you especially after the Siege of Orgrimmar where they were given Azshara in exchange for leaving Ashenvale
So do you want to say that if Jaina went to Ashenvale first and started to cut some trees down that the Elves would have also mistaken them as demons and because she used Arcane magic which was by that time forbidden
Mhm 2 and 3 might be the same story arc but:
- Orcs were attacking during WC3 (not knowing this though, granted)
- After WC3 during Classic → Warsong gulch.
- During Cataclysm → by Garrosh
- During MoP → also by Garrosh (Though might still be the same storyline?)
- During BFA
As far as I know, NEs attacked everyone during their WC3 campaign. Not just orcs, but it has been years after I played it. But yes I think whoever entered Ashenvale was attacked.
In fact: The long vigil of the NEs was actually meant as attacking everyone who enters their forests, no questions, just arrows. Even Taurens were not allwed in there during that time.
If you asked the writers, they’d say the Night Elves.
Even in BfA, the Horde and Sylvanas were apparently entirely justified in invading and destroying night elf lands and genociding their civilians and sending them to hell.
Thrall attacked Ashenvale between WC3 and Classic, you see his troops cutting down trees and marching on the forest. It’s the reason why night elves ended up joining the Alliance.
As for Jaina, her forces were indeed attacked by Tyrande in literally the first mission of the night elf campaign.
It was me actually. I ran around with that Hallow’s End orc mask, set trees on fire and screamed “ZUG ZUG”. It worked so well that Garithos’ Enforcers were even able to get rid of Cenarius for a while. Thanks, Grom.
Who is responsible that night elves are against orcs?
its funny, but the real person who is responsible for the real hate between Night Elves and Orcs is Sylvanas…
Yes, at first they had a conflict because if the Grom, but later they became friends because of the Thrall.
That was not just friendship but also trade contracts. Those trade contracts were canceled at the Wrath Gates, when Forsaken forces have attacked Alliance army (yes I know that those forsakens betrayed also the Horde, but its Sylvanas the one who responsible).
Because of this conflict at the Wrath Gates the Horde have attacked on Night Elves lands in the end, and from that point Night Elves and Orcs became enemies forever.
Actually no. Night Elves have allowed orcs to enter their forests. They were expecting that orcs will just pass their lands and go away. But they didn’t. They started to destroy entire forest, and Tyrande have ordered Sentinels to force Horde out.
https://i.ibb.co/480609P/Chronicles.png
They were attacked just because they join forces with the Horde. That was the only reason.
Nope. Horde have lost the battle in Ashenvale during the Cata. In Elegy its mentioned that Night Elves manage to retake lost camps already in Cata.
But in MOP, before the siege of the Orgrimmar there was pre-event. In that pre-event Alliance and Horde players were attacking Barrens. Our missions were to destroy all the places were Garrosh orcs gather recourses such as iron.
And most important. We players in some quests had to help Night Elves Sentinels to escort those orc resources to Ashenvale. At that moment Ashenvale was already retaken.
In other words during the mop it was not orcs who attacked Ashenvale to steal resources, it was Night Elves who attacked Barrens to steal resources. 
Meh retconicals. … i hate the chronicles really do.
Lets say that was the status before blizz released this garbage book that is NOW again non-canon.
Not true.
The Orcs invaded Ashenvale in classic → Warsong gulch AFTER they were working togather to destroy the legion. Then orcs built orgrimmar and started attacking Ashenvale for lumber.
That is what I meant, wasn’t sure if the Ashenvale attacks from Cata were resolved after cata or were draged into Mop.
Still 4 times orcs attacked Ashenvale after peace.
The reason why Night Elves have bad rep with Orcs is that they had to go to Alliance for WoW.
The fact that Thrall’s Horde aided Night Elves, alongside with Jaina’s token forces means that they have come to some sort of common ground.
There is a black hole after WC3 and WoW to how Jaina managed to drag Night Elves with Stormwind Kingdom and allied themselves in Alliance. Fairly this could have gone either way.
Plus I’m guessing killing Cenarius didnt do any favor for Orcs.
The Ashenvale forest chopping would have been sorted out if lore demanded so.
There is much deeper story behind this. In Classic, Alliance and Horde made a trade contract. Night Elves allowed Horde to cut trees and hunt in Ashenvale (still no information what Orcs were giving for that, but probably Iron. Because it was Iron that Night Elves were taking from Barrens during pre-Orgrimmar event).
But, Horde was allowed to cut trees in some small numbers. Silverwing Sentinels did not liked that and they started to spy over orcs. Also one of the Warsong leaders also did not like that. He have ordered to cut more trees than is needed. Lumber was left to rut.
And so the battle between Silverwing Sentinels and Warsong clan started.
Important thing here is, that official government of the Alliance and the Horde were not involved in this. There was no war between the Horde and the Alliance. Trade contract between the Orgrimmar and Darnassus was still in power. They were continue to trade.
In other words, it was just a local conflict between 2 organizations. Not a conflict between 2 nations.
Until the Wrath Gate. As it stated from the book, that because of the conflict at the Wrath Gates between Alliance and the Horde, Night Elves have closed the borders and kicked orcs out. Borders was closed and trade contract was canceled. Horde left without lumber and Ashenvale food (they still had river, lake and the ocean to fish, but Blizzard forgot about that when they were writing the Shattering book)…
So, Garrosh decided to attack. At that moment started the real war between those nations. This is the moment when the real hate actually begun between orcs and night elves.
I never understood that part that they just cancel all contracts just because a small faction within the forsaken quickly goes rebel and kills everyone from both the Alliance and Horde. It always felt like all of a sudden they thought that everyone in the Horde was bad and acted as if important figures like Thrall and Cairne didn’t even existed in the Faction. Like on the Alliance side characters like Malfurion would have surely trusted Thrall and Cairne because both of them respected Nature and both had no interested in War, which at that Time everyone within the Alliance knew but still acted as if they wanted war.
The reason for starting the whole War never made any sense in the first place, like they just had a war with the legion why start a new 1 immediately and Sylvanas reason to “just attack them before they attack us” was always stupid and then at Teldrassil for Sylvanas to burn the tree down just because a night elf told her that she cannot kill hope was probably the most stupidest thing ever to be honest
Hmm where is that actuall told? Hearing from it for teh first time actually.
There was a hint on Crusaders tournament. One of the NPC tells that Varian Wryn have declared a WAR after the Wrath Gates, but actually that have happened after the battle for Undercity.
And since Alliance high kind declares a war, all other members of the Alliance of course must cancel all the trade contracts with the enemy, or else it will be treason.
Regarding trade contracts there was a comics about Jaina, Varian and Thrall creating trade contracts in Theramor. Also in the book Shattering Thrall tells that Night Elves have canceled those trade contracts because of the thread that leads from the Wrath Gates, and now borders of the Ashenvale are closed.
Regarding Silverwing Sentinels you can check on classic. Darnassian elves send you to bring a letter to Silverwing Sentinels camp, just to check how are they doing. And you find out that they don’t like that orcs cut 2 much tress, and ask you to stop them.
Doing their quests you gain reputation not with Darnassus, but with the Silverwing Sentinels. We do not send any reports to Darnassus. So they act on their own.
Same thing from the Horde side. You find out that Orgrimmar do not know what is going on here. Warsong leader does not likes that Night Elves spying in the forests and orders to kill them.
I knew it!
Ok THAT one is too much interpretation on mere gameplay mechaniques to see this as canon for my taste. That we do not send a letter back could just be a gameplay decision to cut the fed ex quest here and the reputation thing could be just gameplay or lets say limitations.
Silverwing sentinels ar ein darnassus for example recuiting there.
The rest
You decrepid deceiver …
He put Kil’Jaden to shame.
Nightelves have to blame no one but themselves that we are against them. Can’t wait to start the next war so that we can kill as many night elves as possible and make the Horde dominate ALL of Kalimdor. Kicking night elves out will be satisfying.