In WoW? No, I don’t believe they can.
That process has already begun. Gazlowe, friend of the labour unions, doesn’t have much in common with what came before in goblin society.
For you, maybe. That just means they weren’t made for you.
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Gazlowe is still all about money - just more ethical money. That’s nowhere near what I meant.
I genuinely think Goblins weren’t made for anyone to connect with. I love them, don’t get me wrong. But where is their place in terms of lore and world building ? Their only reaction upon meeting the guys that had enslaved them for thousands of years was “cool, new trade partners”. That’s what I meant when I said that if a race is all about something and wholeheartedly ignores the rest (be it their faction, the other races, or the whole universe), then the events of the game we discuss just don’t affect them. That makes them outsiders to the lore. And that will always be a bad move in a game that relies heavily on its universe like WoW.
tell that to the forsaken that help her blight the undercity in bfa,if the some of them loyal to her they also loyal to the jailor as well, because sylvness boss is the jailor it means those forsaken are already on his side,so he don’t need to torture their souls if they already loyal to sylvness and do evil things as her
Even if it started that way, there have been points that show how they’ve developed certain degree of respect for the faction.
Not going to go as far as say that its affection, but they certainly respect them enough to develop to some degree, a sense of partnership. Specially with Blood elves.
Do not think that this is the case neither.
Just because they do not share the sort of bonds that tie the more shamanic Kalimdor races and often prefer to fly solo, it doesn’t mean that they have not developed a different kind of partnership with them.
Again, we have several instances that show this.
I really hope that they do not.
The story becomes richer when writers manage to reconcile differing aspects and make them work in tandem.
Homogenisation kills individuality and uniqueness.
But I never said I was in favor of homogenization. I’m all for them keeping their theme. The thing is, I feel like 1) behavior and personality vary very little between Goblin individuals, 2) we don’t know what they think, how they feel about stuff. They’re just incredibly one-sided and writers refuse to let us see them as anything else than a joke race. That’s personal ofc, but that bothers me a bit
He gave the Horde quite a few free rides. So no, he isn’t.
Considering how the lore is… Good for them!
I recommend you read this particular short story:
http://media.blizzard.com/wow/lore/destination-pandaria/faction-stories/blank-scroll/the-blank-scroll_en-gb.pdf
It highlights the sort of depth Goblins can have, without losing because of it a single bit of what makes them unique.
And in a way that complements their humorous tag, without having it demean them or affect negatively the sort of narrative they offer.
It makes even the likes of Gallywix, understandable and sympathetic.
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That’s pretty much it.
It’s enough to watch the Forsaken intro from Vanilla and it is clear as glass that they are not reliable and loyal to the Horde cause.
Even though the Forsaken have proven to be valuable assets to the Horde and fought shoulder to shoulder whenever the situation called for it, the feeling of resentment towards one another never really disappeared.
They didn’t need to mess with their identity to this extent.
“I need you, you need me” worked just fine imo. The Forsaken should have been left alone to plot in their woods. They made excellent side stories in Cataclysm and proved that they can be kept relevant without humanizing them.
For now.
Council meetings point towards the Forsaken returning home soon enough. The Horde still needs them, more than ever.
Without them, blood elves are stranded in a sea of Alliance territories. They need Lordaeron and they need the Forsaken to gather their forces and cooperate with them.
But to say that they are free to make their own decisions, I only agree to some extent. Voss is a puppet. Imo she doesn’t represent the Forsaken and her close ties to the Alliance are not what I’d like to see atm.
That is the beginning of the shift in their development.
Also, let’s remember that Vol’jin made it clear that he never trusted her. And I seriously doubt that the other leaders did. But Vol’jin was an ideal person and leader, respected by everyone, Sylvanas included. I’m sure her ascension has been, for the most part, honoring his last wish.
And don’t get me wrong, Sylvanas has proven her qualities and the Forsaken have been a strong ally for years now, but nothing about the dead guys screams honor and loyalty imo. These two traits alone are what the Horde used to stand for, which puts the Forsaken at the extreme opposite.
Fair enough, but the added experience put more distrust and pressure on the Forsaken. The normal development after Cataclysm should have been more tension between the undead and the rest of the Horde and not closer ties.
And that is something I agree, although I find it hard to believe that even in those circumstances, they would blatantly choose to side with the Horde instead of Sylvanas. It just doesn’t click to me.
While certain feelings surely developed after all these years, their ability to feel and connect to the other races of the Horde is nowhere near enough to create such a massive rift.
Sylvanas has been their pillar and their hope. All those years of fighting for them and looking for solutions to keep their kind survive had to have a much bigger impact than a bunch of orcs who are not even capable to understand their mind and culture, in my opinion at least.
Boring is just like beauty, in the eye of the beholder. I find the peace and rainbows boring, I loved the pissed off, grumpy and dark undead. I could be the evil guy fighting for the good cause, which sounds absurd and that’s the fun part for me.
They were interesting, with their little plots and intrigues, with their dark experiments and complete lack of interest in normality.
As I said previously, not enough to ditch Sylvanas and side with the Horde. Their partnership with the Horde may have scaled a bit since Vanilla, but there’s been instances where the Horde let them down and I can’t see the undead, who are already plagued by distrust and dislike the living, throw everything Sylvanas did for them and suddenly become full of hope and wanting to be best buddies with the Horde.
I have no doubts that they would fight to protect them, but they would not go to the lengths Sylvanas went. They would not become LK 2 just to make more of these dead guys to keep their society going.
If the Forsaken perished, the Horde would continue to hold their territories and simply take over.
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(That was… pretty amazing, exactly the type of Goblin content I was looking for. Tysm for that)
Right? It’s my all time favourite piece of Goblin lore (not that there is much more of it…).
And as I said, it’s an example of how the original goblin mindset can be made to work in tandem with the Horde.
Stereotypes such as “Thug” or “Mobster” are given additional layers. Raiding squads, and industrialisation is given more depth as narrative concepts.
In all, it was a good plot piece that gave us more information beyond “Bombs go Boom” for goblins.
Characters like Druz being painted as a badass, but in a way that hints at the concept of goblin loyalty (he appears ingame in Voldun and in the Before the Storm novel btw)
And of course having Gallywix showcased as someone smart enough to acknowledge boundaries, and even have the willingness to protect those he considers his own people (to the point that he is willing to face the rest of the Horde and fight Garrosh on a 1v1 in order to protect them)
Mentions regarding the Trade Wars, the Peace Wars,…
Yes, in all, it was a good piece of Goblin lore.
And it’s a shame that Blizzard has deviated from said characterisation, and instead seems to now focus more on moderating and softening their traits.
I’ll probably die alone on this hill, but Gallywix was a far better choice for what Goblin lore should be about. Stories like this one prove that he can indeed be constructive to their story beyond some Capitalism Meme.
Gazlowe is the oddity amongst his kin, and effectively behaves as a gnome would.
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Victory for Sylvanas
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Victory for Sylvanas!
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