Why are Shamans always sub-par

Classes Shaman
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To my recollection, shaman is the only class where the dps specs are consistently Mid-tier or lower, every patch. Why is that?

The frustrating thing is that even when the specs are well-designed from a rotational perspective, blizzard just flat-refuses to tune them into a state of strength.

Additionally, shaman will never be viable in m+ till they give us a decent personal defensive.

Ele and enhance right now are actually really fun to play, they just need major dps throughput buffs and a personal defensive to be decent.

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tbh. I havent had many problems with M+ With SHaman in either speccs in M+. granted i only do uptoo +16s so far. I have 2 Shamans 1 for Enhancement 1 for Elemental.

and DPS Wise
 i do 40k-50k in M+. (35k-42k on bosses) which is where i roughly find quite a few DPS Around my ilevel and not in mass Corruptions.

i think Survivability issues hit Enhancement more (and will hit even harder with storming and things coming in M+) and i think they were Shown ALOT more in Legion M+ Where there was ALOT more unavoidable damage.

Its mainly 20 onwards keys i could see survivability becoming a issue but even then we have like 200 DPS Shamans throughout even Successful 25s. which is Higher then ALOT of speccs make it.

SHamans tbh. Damage it isnt horrific. i wouldnt say we’re Subpar.

however i’d say

PvP Wise, We’ve in 4 years not had a single moment of glory entirely and been kept Subpar for a Loong length of time and Devs refuse to address that.

PvE Wise. we are defintly one of the classes which see the bottom of meters more often then qutite a few other classes which have statically remained Super strong throughout.

saying that SL M+ Logs have Shaman Performing 2k over other classes including rogues, so their latest buffs seem to have made em OP XD

but Shamans been taken as far as a +28. which honestly. DPS Warriors, DPS Druids, we outnumber DKs Priests and more, throughout this Spectrum of the game.

PvE Wise Shamans arent bad. they’ve percieved to be bad because they keep wrecking our class at the beginning of every expansion and dont buff us til .1 Patchs.

Raids we’re defintly mid pack alot more during. but tbh. we’ve never been Monk levels in Raids.

this aint stating we shouldnt get more Survivability, but more i think the Demand is mainly for PvP Purposes where shamans have Always Struggled since they took away all our Sustain.

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A fair response but I don’t really agree that shaman is fine in m+. There is really no reason to take a shaman over a mage, lock, hunter etc. They do less damage and are more likely to die due to not having a personal CD.

At 16s, that’s no so much a problem. And for many of the players that’s enough. 16 is respectable and I’m not belittling your achievements when I say that. The thing is, at that level, many of the mechanics are survivable without a defensive. Once you start getting into the 20s, if you take an Ele you’re just going to end up wasting your CRs on them all the time.

Unfortunately, wow being the way it is, Ele being out of the meta on the top end trickles down and you get idiots who don’t want to invite them to their weekly 15s!!!

In raids, we agree. They’re too often mid pack because ele single target is almost always under tuned.

Enhancement has all the same weaknesses, with less mob control and without the luxury of being ranged.

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I feel like we hit this road regardless
 a Caster at every turn will be pointed the best and a class will be left in the “no point taking us” camp sadly it has been Shaman. and i think only at 1 point in legion (my mind wants to say 7.2) where Shamans were considered really strong DPS Wise.

while it is true. its only pushing 25 onwards any class seems to have a actual problem due to metas, alot of people refer to under 22s As simply “comp dont matter”. im by no far pushing the content to its max so will naturally suffer problems alot less then those pushing alot further where the game becomes more and more punishing.

There are alot of Shamans who 99 Percentile these 28s, Which means they cleared it on a +3. at that level theres no way these shamans are falling over dead that much.

but either way, u could consider it Far too punishing As a Shaman compared to other classes. which is simply you will die if u mess up a mechanic while most other classes have a get out of Jail free card.

Enhancement is tbh as Squishy as it gets and its Sad, Melee with those sorta Requirements is ridiculous and its Kinda weird they’re doing nothing to help it realistically.

this i can defintly agree with.

Even if we’re performing well, We see this perception that we’re bad just because Shamans are memed as permanantly bad due to how often they get the class wrong or its downfalls.

I feel like even when SHaman does perform we’re not really invited regardless, they mess our class up on every expansion Launch. WoD, Legion and BFA all had SHamans starting in a bad spot.

and the Survivability in legion was Beyond a Joke. thankfully BFA Carries so much less unavoidable damage. I remember there were dungeons in Legion that Shamans could Not survive regardless of how hard u tried.

people would have to burn litteral Immunities on you to get u through certain mechanics.

but in SL it looks like its returning. Storming is EXTREMELY melee unfriendly. its going to be almost unadvoidable In high keys in larger Pulls
 i dunno how they cant see this as a problem

Shamans need Some its old Survival tools Returned.

Shamanistic Rage, the Self Healing from the Wolves and more could easily be pulled back

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OK, true. Not everyone can be meta but Shaman isn’t even in the ‘acceptable’ category with Locks and Shadow Priests at the moment

[quote=“Dodogama-draenor, post:4, topic:184647, full:true”]
while it is true. its only pushing 25 onwards any class seems to have a actual problem due to metas, [/quote]

Yes and no. The ‘cutting edge’ is a moving goalpost. Near the start of the season, 20 was cutting edge and you really needed a meta comp to clear it at the gear levels at the time. Now it’s the high 20s. There will always be a level at which taking off-meta picks is going to hold you back. That will be even lower in SL as season 1 is always a tough season. 15s will be no picnic.

Overall, if they give both Shaman specs a proper numbers tuning to make them competitive and give them better defensives, you might see them lose their ‘meme spec’ tag. Blizzard will leave them as mid-bottom performers for throughput though. They always do.

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we can pray :frowning: i dont see it happening tho, they seem to be stubbornly sticking to this “Ankh is Ur Defensive”

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Shaman are perfectly fine in M+ (in general). It is when you’re pushing that you notice discrepancies.

As a Resto Shaman pushing 18-20’s (3k), one kicker is lack of CR. Sure, we have a Totem for that, but it’s nothing compared to point-click CR of Druids, DK’s, or even Locks. Almost no Shaman take it as there are other desirable buttons in the tier and you can just take a Druid or DK or Lock along with you.

After that, it’s the fact that we lack instants that aren’t massive cooldowns. Yes, Spirit Link is a massive button - a monster in raids and a literal life-saver - but aside from that, and maybe Earthen Wall totem, your only generic instant is a minor HoT with a minor Heal, compared to Druids who can have up to 6 HotS on people at once and then do other things. A Shaman in most high keys is barely going to be doing much damage when any actual healing is required - and healing involves mashing long-cast spells - something certain bosses, affixes or situations will make very awkward. A Druid can do its job almost entirely mobile by comparison and even has better defensive options if things go south.

That’s just a small sample.

Honestly, I greatly prefer healing on my Resto Shaman than I do my Resto Druid or even my Mistweaver Monk, but that’s a comfort thing. When it comes to actual high keys (20-25’s and such), the issues with Resto Shaman become much more apparent.

The problem is - people technically only need to do 15’s a week, and there’s nothing wrong with ANY healer when you’re discussing the average bracket. The issue is when people see MDI or other influential content and assume they NEED that setup/class to succeed in average keys. Again, I’m pushing 3k RIO and I know I can easily time all dungeons on 20 or higher, yet when pugging, I will be declined for 17-19’s purely because I’m a Shaman. It is partly justified, which makes it even more annoying - you know you can do it, but other things being better choices means you can’t really argue when people get picky, justified or not.

So, the question is, how far do you wish to push? If you’re happy doing weekly 15’s and calling it a day, Resto Shaman are perfectly fine. If you’re looking to punch up into the higher brackets, you’ll have an infinitely easier time playing (and being accepted by pugs) as anything else.

Resto Shaman’s only forte this expansion is raid healing. Alas, they will be competed with even there, but infinitely more desirable compared to M+ and PvP.

NOTE: All of the above is relative to BFA only. I can’t speak for SL or how it’s looking. I will be going into that 99% blind and sticking to Resto Shaman.

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18 key isn’t ‘pushing’ - that’s casual tier. Every spec in the game can do 18s easily.

The problems with shamans start appearing when you get higher still, where not having a good personal means it’s virtually impossible to survive certain mechanics or on the healing side where weak single target heals just means dps die faster than you can top them.

Ele looks like it has a chance at being OK in SL but enhance and resto are both trash.

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At no point did I say 18’s was high, nor does the term ‘pushing’ translate only to the higher bracket. You can push a key no matter how low it is, which isn’t the same as pushing RIO. As the comment said, “pushing 18-20’s to go for 3K RIO”, which has nothing to do with weather you think 18’s are ‘casual tier’ or not - the meanings are completely different.

The inherent mechanic of Shaman is that they heal more the lower health you have. I’m just out of a 21 (+2) and all it takes to top someone off is a torrent-surge. It’s not uncommon for me to blow a tank healthbar from 1% to 80% in under a second no matter how much MaxHP that target has.

It’s not that they’re bad at it - it’s that the others are generally better at it and with less overall detriments compared to a Resto Shaman, meaning they’d be better off with something else the higher the keys go.

Can’t speak for Enhance, but many testers (and those in my guild who are preparing for SL raids) have stated Resto Shaman is probably going to top the raid-healing side of SL. That doesn’t surprise me - they’re usually always strong in raids and usually suffer everywhere else. As such, they’ll only be trash if you only value the ‘everything else’. On top of that, we have no idea whether they’ll maintain beta balance on release, so we’ll have to wait and see how else it changes.

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Made a shaman here the other day, and got it in ilev 410, but has given up.
My hunter does 10 times as much damage and I can not survive anything.
Was in vision, and died after 2 minutes, I have never experienced anything as poor as my shaman

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i genuinly think blizzard doesnt know how to balance any of the shaman specs so they keep them tuned low on purpose.

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Most logical explanation I heard so far is that it’s because Ion’s ex plays a shaman


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Compared to enhance, why does monk get its dps cd on a 1.5min cd with 2 charges, yet Ascendance is 3 minutes. Why is their ranged cc instant cast, ours is not. Plus instant stun, ms debuff, no mana issues, more survival tools, more mobility, better peels, and argueably better utility(disarm).

Oh we get purge, but that makes us oom
 Tremor totem, not as reliable now it is not usable during fear, and it takes sooooo long to tick sometimes xD

wtf is this game


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sad shaman noises ;[

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