#bringbacklegionsurvival
Bm literally has the hardest rotation rn while sv has the easiest
have to aggree about the pet, oh god on some boss fights the pet can be stopid lol, Azhara fight is the worst for me, need to hit adds, ok, cant use kill command, oh pet is walking to adds lol, pet arrives when add is almost dead haha.
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Talking classic or retail? because BM is pretty damn braindead on live and has been since MoP.
BMs hardest part is knowing when to pop BW and refresh Barbed Shot rest is like the other a priority and that’s about it. Still piss easy.
For raiding it is simple you only have a spesific number of melee spots and the other melee classes have things that make them better and why have a melee hunter when you can have a ranged hunter.
Surv does not do well enough and have enough utility to take over from those other melee specs.
Also for the people like me melee survival feels wrong and i would have prefered it to stay ranged.
I disagree 
I play just fine and it keeps me really focussed on what I’m doing. When they invite me they’re all like yeah a ranged man, then their expectations drops when they realise I’m melee, but they’re happy when I pull my numbers up 
SV is really underestimated, it’s amazing and if I’m feeling lazy that day I just switch back ranged. Rogues can’t do that, nor the other melee classes.
Wanna talk about grappling? It saved my life more times than I can count when I got tossed in the air in SOB or EP or even disengage and grappling back… so useful.
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Retail.
Its a lot harder to properly min max on bm than the other hunter specs.
Saving focus for a new mb window is a lot easier than managing barbed shot/bw
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Hey, survival hunter still has binding shot, which is really useful at Azshara for the hulk 
Also Alot easier to Be fully mobile with 0 Damage Penalty or Rotational Problems due to movement then it is to play Characters Which actually require Knowledge to time their burst windows…
i think this is Actually simply a Sad case of how Much Damage the continous QoL and Pruning has Done to the Skill Ceiling of the class rather then proof of “bm having one of the hardest rotations in retail”.
As its Even Labelled as a very easy specc with very little to learn comparitively. the Specc has 0 Downtime Due to Mechanics Nor punished for anything as able to continously Move throughout the entirity of its Rotation.
Just one simple thing separates surv hunter from being a good class in pve content. It’s freaking Latent poison only activates through raptor strike and not cleave/butchery as well. Whether we want it or not, spec efficiency in bfa is revolving around correctly built azerite traits, and today’s meta is Latent Poison. As it is now, you must manually tab mobs and claim Latent poison stacks with mongoose/raptor strike, it’s unnerving and inefficient, while BM/MM can just press Multishot and start dealing AOE without any issue. Blizzard did awful job regarding hunter’s survival spec design and it’s azerite traits, thank them for ruined spec.
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There is no hard spec in the game at the moment there is just less easy or more easy then another spec.
And that can be very subjective (even though on paper something is easier then another that does not mean it cant be harder then the thing that is supposedly harder to play for the actual player.)
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To be honest, I find it hard to output strong AoE damage in M+ on survival. On havoc it doesn’t even cost effort.
What other already have mentioned, it really lacks in the aoe aspect of gameplay. Too clunky rotation for much less dps.
So if you are raider and/or do M+, you better play different spec. I think there was some chart of all classes/specs for M+ and Survival was at the very bottom.
However you can still play Survival in raids and do comparable dps with your other spec.
The issue (and another reason why SV isnt as played) comes with azerite armor. The BiS azerite gear for all specs usually consists of 2 pieces for residuum while being different from the other spec optimal piece. So either you go for lottery or wait and spend 200k. Personally choosing the second path i still dont have enough for the 2nd piece while doing regular M+ (missed 1week i think).
So now the question is for which spec do you buy the gear? The 1 that can be used only in raids or the other viable in all occasions? Seems smarter to play BM/MM. Also saves you some money for changing all the gems/enchants/possible azerite armor trait reset.
There never has been
I think it’s more so that it feels like a bag of poo to play. Mishmash of abilities.
Re-opening this huge can of worms, Survival was build on Vanilla as a mix of ranged and melee, not melee exclusively.
In the next expansions it lost it’s melee identity bit-by-bit, replacing for CC, dots, and such (more pvp oriented if i recall from my amateur WotLK arena days).
Then MoP axed the 3rd slot, forcing all hunters to use solely ranged weapons.
So may say Survival had for a decade a ranged identity, as trapper, cc’er, doter, and such.
With Legion it kept a liiiiiitle bit of it, but changed to melee mandatorily. Now, peeps that loved the quick, mobile ranged Surv spec were left behind, and the “attempt” to mix the old Surv with MM just made MM a mess, that is still recovering for now.
So, no. The stigma is axing a ranged specc for a melee one, when there’s already a lot of melee classes, plus all new classes since WotLK are melee.
Right now, i would say all hunter specs are a shadow of what they were.
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I would pay an arm and a leg for ranged SV back, I don’t mind it’s form with a melee weapon (WotLK/Cata) but just to return. I miss pro-kiter and dot spec… I never wanted anathor melee spec, but with a pet! In my eyes we went from 2 ranged + pet spec to ranged (sniper), pet and melee. So we have 1 (true) ranged melee spec left.
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I would gladly pay your arm and a leg for a return of cata enhancement shaman, but sadly…
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There is a clear difference between mechanic change and just changing the whole role. With DKs back then it was more deciding which would become dps or tank, since all 3 specs could do both. Here they ripped an entire spec just because they had to have anathor melee spec in this game. MM is more or less a caster since it shares the same weakness. Moving is dps lose. SV had bad ST damage but good mobile, dot and AoE damage.
If they wanted a pure melee hunter so much they should have made BM (Rexxar’s class fantasy inspiration) or just introduced a 4th spec. If it wasn’t for hunters being able to unlock so many weapon mogs they would be all still 110 or 100 post-WoD.
Very much agree.
I am of the opinion(in this case) that what’s done is done. They changed SV to melee. They(devs) chose to give it to the class despite that there weren’t a tangible player demand for such a change to be made.
This to me, suggests that there is no point in us asking for MSV to be removed because they(devs) did not make that change based on what we as current hunters wanted. So, I say leave MSV as it is. Leave MM as it is(with a focus on the theme/fantasy of a sniper/deadshot that doesn’t have much at all to do with pets).
And, give us a 4th spec option that provides a modern version of what was ranged Survival prior to Legion.
With “modern” I mean a design that would actually fit the game which we have today. As, any iteration of the old ranged SV spec that we’ve had would not fit in the game today.
Anyone who have visited the EU Hunter forum since earlier this summer, or the US Hunter forum, or even MMO-C, have probably seen my suggestions before.
The main reason as to why I’m leaning heavily towards the 4th spec-route is because it is essentially the only way where we who miss the old SV, can get that spec back in a proper way, without it hurting the existing specs(or the players playing those).
(PS. It’s not a giant wall of text. It’s just the link that looks weird)
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