It is really showing what a different game it is now. We had burst damage and burst healing in Legion. We had things that hitted till it was a 1 shot in every dungeons, but we also healed 70% of healthbars with 1 spell. Now our basic spells are healing 10-15% of a healthbar. And all our cooldowns except Ascendance are also taken away. I am really wondering how to heal Hyrja when i know i need a cooldown every lightning.
Just give us the DF dungeons please… The old dungeons will never top the experiences we had when the dungeons were current.
Couldnt agree more.
I would have understood the old dungeons in a s2 or maybe s3. But so early? No not at all
Hence my reason to “speak” with my wallet and unsub and not buy DF, listed the M+ season as main reason for unsubbing.
Which it still is, i truly was looking forward to all new aditions, talents / zones / dragonriding / new dungeons / new raids etc.
And what does sting is everybody telling the people that arent happy with this season we should just go with it.
But if they would re-use raids or maybe go back to old pvp systems the outcry would be way bigger.
The list of Halls of Valor nerfs on beta truly shocked me, it was truly long and i think all mobs + bosses were on it.
And since it is already such a big list when we arent even playing live i can only imagine what mess it will be early on.
Because major tuning to dungeons never happens till there is a bigger sample size + talents / abilities and gear thrown into the scaling.
I remember Hyrja and that ability being a pain on Tyrannical back in Legion. Especially on higher keys we never got away with a clean kill, when you run out of personal + group cds.
Going off topic here a bit, but here’s the thing- a portion of the playerbase have been asking for years for Blizzard to make old content more relevant. This is their take on exactly what those players were asking for. They couldn’t really do it with world content and raids so here’s the end result
They could, but the outrage would be way too big and cost them too much players.
Since re-using raids will also get a lot of negative replies from the higher end guilds.
This m+ season only loses them long term players most likely which arent around much anymore. (Read 6 years+ players)
So it was most likely a calculation of who and what players to lose.
MDI might stay alive for the teams since the prizepools are pretty decent.
But for MDI viewers, i will guess it will take a really deep dive, even tho MDI doesnt have a lot of views to begin with.
Yeah, but i want to experience the new dungeons in S1 of M+ and not wait for the first 6 months to do only 4. then enjoy the other 4 for 6 months.
Just overall i dont agree with their choice and i think its a bad move.
If they would have announced it for Season 2 when we were already in Dragonflight i would go: ah well lets go with it, since i am playing anyway.
But for Season 1 already when there are 8 total new dungeons and 4 of them are obsolete within 2 weeks? nah thanks.
And there is the whole part of the new expansion world being ‘‘underused’’ since we will get portals in Valdrakken to the area’s of the old dungeons for sure, since not everyone has the means or intro quests done to get to said old dungeons, making the world feel smaller aswell.
Nah highly doubt it, given the fact season 2 will be the other 4 dungeons and old ones.
I would guestimate that season 3 will be all 8 Dragonflight dungeons, but i highly doubt that.
Maybe season 2, but that truly depends on how people view Season 1 and how their feedback will be towards Blizzard, given it is already mostly positive right now, i dont see that happen either.
And by that time i will have lost my interest in the game completely since i didnt bother with it for 12 months.
just a billion dollar idea here, considrring we talk about a smmll indie company, it is probably not possible but, well you could just design more than 8 dungeons in the first place and add every patch e.g. 4 dungeons.
considering we usuallu have 3 patches, they would need to make 20 dungeons.
sure it is a little more work than rehashing dungeons, but well it is not a small company after all.
they just want more monry for no effort and that is the one and only rrason they dont do it
I am with you on this one. I believe they should put all the new dungeons in S1 and leave out the old one. Especially in S1. Its a new expansion and you want your players to experience the new game and get immersed into it before you toss in old used assets.
1: after the tuning clown fiesta that was season 4 with dungeons such as lower karazhan or iron docks timer being unchanged they feel the need to showcase the desing/balance team are not clowns and are capable off doing rehashed content that is decently balanced
2: the design team is trying to spread out the content throughout the seasons to prevent another shadowlands where after 1.5 years all the dungeons are played out, tazavesh releases and the players feel unsatisfied with the amount off dungeon content
3: the design team feels its to much at once to learn 8 brand new dungeons, having only 4 dungeons be ‘‘new’’ makes it an lot more managable for casual players without having this massive learning curve off 8 brand new dungeons
4: the team feels the need to make each season have ‘‘new’’ loot, an lot of players malded heavily from season 1-3 that IQD, changeling, soulleting ruby, blood splattered scale etc where mandatory items to progress the content players wanted to do
Current beta changes to the old dungeons are huge and insane. Search for the Halls of Valor changes from 5 or 6 days ago, “balancing” abilities while nerfing them with 60% at a time in a beta setting.
Gear / talents arent fully tested in every comp or setup for said dungeons so when it hitsn live it will need another set of changes before it works properly. Sample sizes atm for balancing dungeons are too small.
Bringing in dungeons were a part of your playerbase did spend the full 2 years of an expansion already doesnt seem to be the answer to this one.
They need to create more content for the amount we pay, the expansion itself is more expensive again versus Shadowlands.
Season 4 showed us otherwise, people werent up to speed on some of those dungeons or never even played them.
Or outright didnt remember mechanics so there was a learning curve.
Might be a shorter curve, but still this doesnt make a lot of sense.
And all 8 DF dungeons will be played leveling / gearing up (nm / hc and mythic 0) towards the start of the M+ season. Making those mechanics “fresh” and recently learned or aware of how to deal with them.
Could have been fixed, if they would have made trinkets more equal across the board this wouldnt happen.
And especially the gap between the trinkets you mentioned and what else was there to loot, was just too massive.
And even then, each season no matter what dungeons you will throw into the mix will have this issue.
It just changes every 6 or so months.
Season 4 had ptr m+ testing and it still ended up an clown fiesta, hopefully dragonflight season 1 will not be this horrendous where Junkyard 35 is doable but karazhan upper 32 is almost impossible, current sample size on heroic dungeons is sadly irrelevant
Agree that we need more consistant dungeon content for the amount we pay, getting something like working towards m+ elite appearances can do an lot of good
Heavily agree that season 4 showed us otherwise, the steep learning curve is something the devs need to help the players with. having 8 dungeons per season with brand new mobs,elite and bosses, routes, varying incoming damage intake etc
Trinkets such as iqd,scale will always be mandatory autoinclude, their argument is that if the dungeon pool changes every season we wont have an repeat off shadowlands where iqd,scale etc was mandatory for YEARS not seasons
Sample size of proper timed and ran m+ dungeons with many different compositions are even lower.
And thats the reason why i mentioned the Halls of Valor nerfs, they are so significant its insane.
Even tho that dungeon was built around being m+ content even tho with a totally different pool of abilities / power levels than Dragonflight will show us.
Temple of Jade Serpent / Shadowmoon Burial Grounds had some nice mechanics but scaling them with m+ %s, will be an issue if not tested properly.
Totally understand that its their argument.
I just heavily disagree and i believe a better option would be to not create trinkets that are so far apart.
Scale didnt even have any competition from any other dungeon trinket, even tho we had 3 or 4 tank trinkets total.
So the difference between those should be within 1-2% instead of the 20-30% as they were.
And that would mean bis lists end up with: use what you can get your hands on, and the differences are really small. Instead of: hurrdurr omg get scale now!
That would be a way healthier fix than making the decision to re-use dungeons and “rebuilt” a loot table.
Since Ion mentioned that especially trinkets from Mists of Pandaria arent really in the list of cutting edge performers, so they have to rework trinkets / other loot to even make the m+ season work.
It is quite a thing to throw the whole system around for 1 trinket that you wanted to get again in a new season. And there were even seasons where you just wanted 2 raid trinkets…
The new dungeons are in there from launch. So the dungeons are finished.
And they are currently putting a lot of work in getting the old dungeons scaling the right way. Have you seen the big list of changes for halls of valor on wowhead? And also for that one in pandaland, if i am correct.
That’s not true though . Just becasue someone was carried through +15 doesnt mean he knows the dungeon and what to do in IT.
I did today ID 19 . We timed IT easily even though 1 player died like 10 times to very Simple mechanics. He certainly doesnt really beling there and made us work much harder yet according to you he belongs there because he completed IT ?
M+ is winning in 1 regard because od how little “one shot whole group” mechanics are in there they are way superior to raids and much more fun to do .
That changes literally nothing to the problem if they are all available, considering you have to play all of them if you play M+ in any serious way, you’d still get bored of repeating them.
Besides imagine ending-up with a season where you need to know the routes etc of 20 dungeons at all time…
That’s just a torture.
Yeah and what does it have to do with my post? Some people don’t know what they are doing, we all know that.
Doesn’t change the fact that it’s more than doable to know the dungeon well enough for +15 in one season.
Some just don’t want to learn, or returned just one week ago, etc.
M+ is just a gearing method with a lot of gimmicks. It was fun back in Legion. Now it’s to the point that old dungeons are welcome because all new dungeons are designed to have “E-sport potential” and therefore are straight-up annoying to run.
While i agree 20 dungeons is too much, we had in BFA and legion more dungeons than 8. And 8 is really making you play the same dungeon over and over again. At the end of BFA with mechagon added we had 12 dungeons, and i would prefer a number like that.