Why complaining about M+ difficulty?

Community General Discussion
1

I got mine Keystone Master yesterday, mostly in PUG’s, as a Discipline (yes, meta-healer, but not a Shaman:D) and have some things to discuss, but first i need to highlight a important point:

M+ system is not about solo content, it’s about doing things in group inside MMORPG.
Most of the people trying to play in WoW as solo player and forgetting the big thing - this game never been made for solo players so why expect decent progression in harder content if you are playing alone?

Yes, you can reach around ~1.8k-2k RIO solo, but, if you really wanna push higher - change your mindset.

And more points comes outs of this one:

  1. If you have no friends to play with - M+ is not for you.
    Seriously, stop complaining about group content as a solo player, because this system require decent amount of cooperation and higher keys was designed around voice chat in Discord.

  2. If you playing as pure DPS class without friends or atleast tank\healer in party - M+ is not for you.
    You will have miserable time, trying to get into a group, wipe couple of times, deplete a key and start all over again. If you really wanna have some progress in keys solo, play as a healer\tank and then swap to DPS when you get required gear.

  3. If you more focused on ITEMS, instead of class mastery and social interaction from time to time (finding friends and stable comps) - this game is not for you.
    You are playing with OTHER PEOPLE, yeah you will be surprised, but this Night Elf Priest is the other person, who spent a lot of time farming gold for chants, watching videos about his class, boss mechanics and asking you for kicks and CC not because he is retarted or dumb.

FAQ:

  1. I have kinds\work\night shift\“some other excuses” and only have 15 minutes for a game each day. What should i do?
    Answer: Do casual content. It will be more fun to you.
  2. I dont have friends or group to play with. What should i do?
    Answer: Make or find one. We have forums, guids or chat for that.
  3. I dont like other people, wanna do things alone. What should i do?
    Answer: Do casual content or find another game.
  4. My favorite class is not meta right not. What should i do?
    Answer: Try the other specs or different classes, if you wanna play the game.
  5. But i REALLY LIKE my “class\spec”. What should i do?
    Answer: Make a stable group or find one, join the guild. Take a break from hard content.

And now starts the real topic:

  1. Dungeon difficulty is fine, before you start doing +11 and above (which is not casual content and should be hard). I mean, in general, !!!right now!!!, they tuned most of the dungeons very well. People just need to pay more attention to casts, use their CC and defensives from time to time, and not focus only on rotation.
    DF S4 made a HUGE mistake with DH doing all the job about kicking casts and CC, so players get used to it. If you spent, like 5-10 minutes before entering each dungeon and read monster abilities and think about, what should be kicked - most of the packs will be a breeze.
    I see MANY DPS players doing nothing outside of DPS rotation, dying a lot and then yelling about broken dungeons, depleted keys, with all defensive cooldowns not even used a single time. Why?

  2. Meta - is a brain disease. You dont need Shaman in every single dungeon, as a healer, before entering 10+ keys. You dont need perfect comp, to farm most of the +8 keys, to get your crest rewards and upgrade your gear. You just need to pay attention for what happening around you right now.
    Wanna do GB on +10? Pick atleast one curse dispel, 3 classes with low CD kicks, 2 with CC, one with BL, one with CR. THATS ALL YOU NEED. Stop thinking about perfect 0.1% comps at low lvl keys and bring what you really need for the key.

  3. Gear farming is actually good right now. You can get a lot of items from Delves, 1-2 items per 5 keys on average (1 natural drop and one traded from someone else), 1 item from raids on each difficulty and one item from vault. So u get atleast 5+ items per week if you playing on one character. Is it that bad?
    +8 key - is a sweet spot for most of the players to get their gear and get used to dungeon\boss mechanics. But people just wanna get MYTHIC loot, without doing well in terms if their performance in M+, cause LOOT is everything they need.
    Please, stop focusing on ITEMS instead of CLASS MASTERY, because, you not gonna complete this +10 GB even with 626 ilvl, if you not use kicks\CC\defensives and dont know boss mechanics.

Theres still problems with M+ right now and here some of them:

  1. Some keys timers is too low for Challengers perish affix. NW\GB\COT is one of them.
  2. Gold costs are huge. This is unhealthy.
  3. Runed crest cap is bad. Im okay with Gilded one, but why capping the most important one for 99% of the player base?
  4. To many changes for one season. Im okay with CC nerf, but slower gear progression + tank nerf + key squish is a bit to much imo.
  5. Class tuning is slow.
5 Likes
2

If everyone had the same mindset as you, I’d like to play M+. Reality is that many people just try to get gear and not really learn the game.

5 Likes
3

Your arguments at the end are solid reasons to complain. And you forgot to mention the 15s death penalty.

Stonevault also has a very short timer.

At +10 both Fortified and Tyrannical are applied. A +10 is equal to a +20 from last expansion.

I think the reason the difficulty squish and the nerfs happened is because Blizzard does not want players to push infinitely as that creates too much of a division in the community. A +10 is a soft cap. Yet in the 1st season we already see players pushing +15s (which is a +25 from last expac).

I think Blizzard should double down at this point and introduce a hard cap to not go above a M+15. That way people might actually stop smashing their heads on their keyboards and flame each other because they can’t push as high as the pros do, and Blizzard can focus on class balancing and longer timers in M+ to give everyone a fair chance.

As we stand right now, people are becoming even more toxic simply because they cannot climb as easily as they could before the difficulty squish. Even people who play premade are arguing and flaming at each other when pressured (happened to my group today). So being premade and playing with friends is not the solution to everything, rather it can break relationships. Just like League does.

1 Like
4

Right off of the bat you fail.

If keys cannot be done without a highly coordinated premade group then all players should stop playing. This game should be able to be done at high levels with people who are skilled and know their roles.

You yourself even say this in your statement. I quote:

You did it in pugs yet are also saying that this is not poosible unless you have “friends” in wow.

Since i used to pug my way to 15’s i know your statement is false. And you even say so yourself.

1 Like
5

Yes, you are right, BUT, im a im a healer. Imagine doing same thing as a feral druid? How much time would it take? I did around 75+ keys for the past 2 weeks in pugs, btw.

How many keys, on average, DPS player can do in same amount of time ALONE?

True, because most of the players are DPS and it’s hard to get an invite. Why spending 30 minutes in Dornogal, begging for an invite, getting into a key and deplete 2\5 of them?
Is it definition of FUN?
I also mentioned, that you don need perfect comp for +8 farm, which is a bottle neck for most of the players.

1 Like
6

Here’s the issue. Players like you go into M+ and try to improve at the game and think as a team. I have a very similar mindset as you.

However, the vast majority of wow players, I interacted with, just want to go collect rewards. They don’t care about all of this you said. They want their goodies, and they want them now. Anything else is a waste of time to these people. That’s why they only invite Meta classes with 2500 rio and 620+ ilvl to +8. They don’t even try to find premades after a successful run. They don’t view people in pugs as potential team members in my experience. And you know what? Fine. I think M+ is not fun to me right now, because the way, it’s supposed to be played, and the way, the community approaches it, are 2 completely different things.

So: I honestly want Blizzard to adapt to the community with the way they design this content, so at least the space becomes more positive.

I legit see people in the forums asking Blizzard to give them the best gear in the game from a +6. This says everything you need to know about how people view M+.

In raids people already have a way better mindset. This is also shown, because people in raids care about logs, which means they actually care about their gameplay, not only about their gear drops.

2 Likes
7

Yes, this arguments are solid, not gonna lie, but most of them outside of the dungeons and people asking to nerf dungeons, without even trying to do them properly.

I spent A LOT of time in SV, because i have issues as a healer in this dungeon. Now im good and maybe this is the reason, why i didnt mention this dung:D

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I would do the 6 just to get the 6. gear is acool and all but i want to see if i can do that 6 in my 611 gear tha ti got.

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You act like me when i first started WoW and won my first duel.
Full confident mode on. :pinched_fingers:

10

Yep, I like the difficulty too, m+is the best it has ever been. The total player count running m+ compared to previous expansions prove it also.

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Yup, not for me.

Lots of people are going to realize too, it’s not for them.

No, they shouldn’t view it as if they got denied ice-cream or something.

I myself am a bit social, but I prefer going in groups of 2 to content. Whenever it’s a group of 5+ or so, that’s more of a one-time weekend thing when we all get together to joke in our discord, and they’re long standing friends of 10+ years. A once-a-week-gathering is not grounds for M+ progression.

In a way, this is starting to feel like “if you don’t like it, don’t play/watch it” and well, they’re just going to walk away, why be miserable over a video game.

12

This is a gigantic load of nonsense. You can reach well above that in solo.

Stupid take. There are people that pug consistently and consistently push really high keys.
If you have no friends you simply have to accept the randomness of pugs.

Oh my god bud seriously stop it with this random takes.
You have your own key if you are a dps, and will simply have to apply more in pug.

Also stop applying to group missing one single dps like 99% of stupid people do cause they do not wanna wait the group to form and then waste 30 min getting delisted.

Apply to groups with just a dps to increase your chances.

Again, you should seriously stop projecting your view of the game on others. Just because you value social interactions and creating stable groups does not mean that who doesnt is playing the wrong game.

I really doubt there are people that ask this question for 15 min, cause yay lets make extreme 1iq example to make my point.

If you have a tight time you can do any content in that window, you just need to plan ahead and not waste time. But generally to be able to do something in WoW of endgame besides delve, you need at least 45/1h playsession.

Play pugs.

:roll_eyes: No one will ask this question they know already. It is kinda obvious dont you think?

Seriously dude, just shut up alimenting this fotm fiesta for doing KSH/KSM.

If you need to try other classes cause yours isnt meta you know what should you do. Get better at the game till you stop complaining about not being meta.

TLDR of this topic.
" I got a random achievement that made me feel good about myself and need to pat myself on the back a bit by telling people with different views that this game is not for them"

2 Likes
13

I personally have no problem with the difficulty, and I think M+ dungeons are reasonably doable in PUGs up to +10 given good enough gear (may be a little tuning is needed to make dungeons of the same level having similar difficulty). I don’t think anything higher than +10 should cater for pugs.

With that said I have the following feedback:

  • Why is key depletion still a thing? By that I mean reducing the level key owner’s key if the dungeon is not timed. There are 5 people in the group, why punish the key owner only? Isn’t the time wasted trying to form the group and the time wasted in the dungeon enough punishment?
  • The reduced crests from untimed dungeons is really bad and increases the numbers of leavers. You get 3x crests from a timed dungeon. This gives players incentive to leave when they feel the key will not be timed, especially tanks and healer who can find groups easily.
  • I really dislike the +7 affix Challenger’s Peril. Combined withe the reduced crests on failing to time the dungeon, makes the experience very frustrating.

The above 3 problems combined really increase the toxicity in dungeons.

1 Like
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Disgusting hipocrit op. Try playing non meta class in m+…Ppl like you are the worst…

15

Yes, but my topic mostly talks about DPS ppl, that keep struggle in PUGs. Of course you can go above, but in my experience and experience of my friends - it’s miserable.

Only small amount of all pug-players can reach higher keys without Discord comp.
Accept randomness of PUGS? According to stats, we got down from 2.4m keys to 1.8, because many people just quit. I bet not everybody wanna do that, right?
So they quit and it’s better decision because why waste time?

But they will wait same amount of time to find tank\healer. Is is better, than applying to other groups?
And btw, what if someone needs Ara-Kara or GB for trinkets? Or maybe rings from different dungeon? Wait till their key converted?

This is my topic and my mindset so i can say what i want.
Many ppl just doing their weekly-chest keys on +8, because they only need items. They they will deplete someone’s keys over and over again, cause why try harder? I just need my shinny items from vault and i dont have time to learn dungeons, cause i have different alts to play^^

Extreme example better explains my point. If you have small time - dont play keys in pugs, because most of the time you will get nothing or 50g.

And even if someone have 1h, imagine spend 10-15 mins finding a group → 5 mins to wait everyone → wipe on the first boss → deplete. Nice plane ahead btw:D

Yes and im proud of it, why not? That was a good journey.
Im facing a lot of people, who suffer and pugs and instead of trying to do something about themselves, keep yelling at blizzard on forums or in videos, that game is unfair to them.

16

Why bother with this when I can just get a 616 every week with delves, upgrade the whole set to 619, and then in the last week just do a bunch of 6s/7s to get the mount when everyone’s OP roflstomping things?

Going beyond 2k gives you stupidly weak rewards, and I have someone else to stroke what needs stroking.

17

you would have to run your own keys.

I have a hunter who is now 592 from doing all the purple chest quests tha tpop up per week.

Ive played this huner since cata and it was originally my main. A MM hunter.

Pff…i gave up sitting in ques afer 20 asking to be invited to a 0.

Its either run your own keys as dps or give up. I think the public at lrage is now wanting a min of 600 now to do a 0.

At the start it was high 570’s that got you into a 0 when everybody was desparate just to get into one. Now the gate keeping has started and if you did not gear all your alts you are now stuck in limbo.

I gave up on the hunter. I am not sitting is some que for hours on end. And i dont even have a key either. I think i might be able to get one from a NPC again. I think i saw one now that i think about it.

1 Like
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GG you got KSM. Doesnt mean you should spread non sens :blush:

It from many points looks like a troll post.

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I don’t and i am doing just fine. Its been like that since idk BFA.

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it’s miserable as i said, if you don’t adapt to make it less miserable.
Every online game where you team up with randos have this randomness, maybe i am just too used to it.

People quit for the most various reason some try 1 keys and then stop, some want KSM for the mount, others just want max rewards and portals (like me) and then basically can stop doing keys besides weekly.

The fact that keys decline does not mean “oh people just dont wanna put up with pugs”

Yeah with the SMALL difference that if the group is yours, you are already in. If you keep applying to almosts filled groups like an idiot you could waste an entire game session in queue. A slight little difference.

Okay, let me tell you a secret.
+2 drop 619 gear in disguise.

If you seriously need a specific trinket for whatever reason, you have 2-6 key range that will give you the 619 version of the trinket.

You will need +8 and above to up the trinket anyway to 626 and you really don’t wanna waste gilded crest in a 626 hero piece( if you have better targets).
And besides the difference between a 619 and the 626 version of the same trinket is not even noticeable.

Not to the average person for sure.
So yeah, i think pretty much everyone can go farm a +2 to target specific loot.

I have done a +11 and still have a Champion Ara-Kara trinket. World won’t fall down on me.

Yeah, your topic posted on a public forum tho, so i guess there is that.

So what? It’s a game at the end of the day.
Oh boo, someone depleted a 8, omg the end of the world.
I don’t think you should pretend much from people playing 8 weeklys.

If you wanna do keys then yes that is the way. Some days will suck other will be good.

Because now you are here putting out your views as some sort of gospel, that’s why.