Reading this I see a lot of accusations of meta on behalf of guard guilds. I ask you all, then, how is a Guard Guild supposed to investigate a crime scene? RPers have no tools that allow such. You cannot see the footprints left behind by an RPer, track their scent with dogs, see the blood splatter left behind on a wall or find a finger print that was accidentally left behind without some level of meta-knowledge of the incident.
Sure, law enforcement and criminals can talk about the crime scene OOC but when it comes to investigating a crime scene it can easily boil down to Master Assassin who leaves no trace behind vs Sherlock Holmes. Remember when we were young and used to play soldier?
"I win I shot you first!
“Nuh uh I shot you!”
“No way! You missed!”
“No you missed!”
Without tangible evidence that gets left behind for people to find it can be impossible to get anything done without having some OOC knowledge of what took place, and even that relies on people’s goodwill and let’s be real here, Alliance RP is about “winning” RP.
Note: this does not excuse metagaming nor godmote-ing, I just think it’s an important factor in the Cops ‘n’ Robbers RP scene.
4 Likes
It’s not really conducive to a constructive debate on the topic if you’re so keen to dismiss the perspectives of ‘non-criminal’ RPers just because they don’t align with your own stance. Criminal RPers certainly aren’t faultless and there’s a lot of problems caused by them*
*I say ‘them’ as a generalisation and it doesn’t mean to refer to all criminal RPers
5 Likes
Well, one option is to maybe not do things like similar to “I saw ‘John Smith shoots Smithy John in the head’ in emotes earlier, so we have our suspect”
Of course, as has been established in this thread, it all has to come from both sides.
Reading this I see a lot of accusations of meta on behalf of guard guilds. I ask you all, then, how is a Guard Guild supposed to investigate a crime scene? RPers have no tools that allow such. You cannot see the footprints left behind by an RPer, track their scent with dogs, see the blood splatter left behind on a wall or find a finger print that was accidentally left behind without some level of meta-knowledge of the incident.
So, in regards to this, I totally agree with you as a former criminal RPers. There are issues on both sides, and it really isn’t just an issue within criminal RP but RP on AD as a whole. A lot of people choose to call bs OOC rather than just go with something for the sake of RP. If I RP:ed a criminal and some guard came in to investigate, even if it was purely on OOC information, I’d still rather deal with it IC in some form rather than start drama, because it’s still RP. In the end of the day, those people meta because they want to RP, I don’t think starting drama is the best way to solve issues like that.
2 Likes
Would this be solved by making it impossible to decline duels - but have city guards attack the initiator if it’s started within their view?
Target player can try to run away, or fight, but they can’t ignore it.
I have this feeling that’d be the opposite of helpful in any regard.
I agree. Imagine the crying and drama that would cause.
IMHO, this problem is twofold.
One, you have criminal guilds doing their crimes in broad daylight, or speaking about it openly where everyone can hear…or writing it down in their TRP so everyone can see*
Two, you have guard guilds, investigators, etc who *read the TRP and act upon it, even though they could not have known about it. Or even worse, they heard about it OOC and are taking it IC.
As long as these things don’t change, criminal RP in general can’t exist, thrive nor prosper.
Kudos to anyone from either side who don’t do these things, but i’m afraid they are a VERY large minority.
It seems what is needed is a more “let’s go with it” attitude. You can’t wish for random rp and at the same time being “No not this, not that”. If we want an immersive world I think we have to accept accidents, actions and consequences that wasn’t in our original plan (if it’s not straight contradicting with your own story)
If anyone feels like robbing my character in a dark alley, be my guest, but please whisper first, it’s hard sometimes knowing if it’s serious or someone trolling around 
4 Likes
Most criminal rpers are criminally bad at playing the game. Sure there’s an argument to be made for this but honestly it would be more hassle than help.
Although I do think dueling should be allowed -in- cities, it would speed up the mess of emote battle ninja edgemasters when I as a law-abiding hero plant my flag of challenge for them to promptly shuffle off the mortal coil and out of interrupting my rp.
1 Like
Your analysis seems to place most of the fault on the good guys squad. However you have to consider the following;
A) Following Blizzard’s own narration, many players have turned their characters into powerful heroes that contend against the likes of pit lords and fel reavers. A lowly criminal is not going to be a challenge to such a warrior, archmage or what you have. Then, either the criminal is beaten or he becomes a super ninja with no explanation.
- the world has become (after cataclysm) increasingly dominated by the main factions, making it harder to claim areas for neutral-evil guilds from both a practical and narrative pov
B) Players dont like losing. We all play to get some sense of reward. Both the criminal and the target of the criminal want to defend their character to the bone because, in their view, he is the protagonist of his story.
C) A lot of “evil” RP these days consists in (or atleast used to when I played) the typical corrupt officer RP. Rather than heroes, you have guys that act as paragons of their people, save for the fact their characters are racist and violent. And will exploit the law for their character’s aims.
- This style of RP is in competition for the “antagonist” RP among others, as it allows you to be gratified by cruel deeds while also downplaying the consequences of such behaviours.
Edit.
D) Its hard to run a guild without a feel of cohesion, progression and change. But criminal RP is, for the most part, static and individualistic by nature/substance. Criminal guilds overcome this obstacle by being cyclical in nature: they do their thing, disband, reform, do their thing again, disband, reform…
E) In the narrative, thugs and criminals usually occupy a small place in the overall narration, comparable to the Defias’ one: they are the result of a greater evil and as such, it’s one of the first challenges the protagonist has to overcome as he advances towards greater threats.
1 Like
Really? I mostly do roleplay for the sake of writing a good story but you do you.
1 Like
If you were to write a good story you’d just write on your own.
Besides you yourself argued how much you like to argue against people ‘without sugarcoating’. I doubt that enhances your writing skills.
Some of us actually find enjoyment in writing good stories that we can share with others too, be it through character interaction, events, etc.
2 Likes
So your forum writing style is exactly the same as your RP writing style?
Do your characters usually speak in the format of lengthy lists that are 70% wrong?
Face it man, just because you want to “win RP” doesn’t mean that everyone RPs for the sake of winning.
2 Likes
Another roadblock is the fact that there’s no singular core system used by the whole community to handle such interactions. Just as people have different characters, they also have different rp styles and systems.
That lack of consistency can hurt criminal rp initiatives.
2 Likes
You misunderstand my point. What I claim is essentially what Neeroz admitted (unknowingly): people have a more compelling reason to RP than just writing a story; that alone doesn’t explain much. It is more a specific sense of “ enjoyment” (though I find the term reward more fitting) that you seek when you play the game and RP. Though the type of reward or pleasure may change depending on the person (for some it might be a boost of adrenaline, for others a more detached contemplative pleasure) the dynamic is the same.
Obliviously, the idea that we play for some reward doesn’t lead directly to the idea that we always want to win; but it’s likely most people don’t like to loose actively to random players - and your competitivity on the forums corroborates this idea. It’s not like this point is an outlandish concept; it’s usually one of the main reasons for which many players don’t like /emote fights with strangers.
It also explains things your idea doesn’t: it is easily tied to why people claim to be dependent from WoW and why players seek to bond/ relate to each other so much outside of the context offered by story-writing and narration (ie. on the forums or the discord community). Plus obviously it offers a less rational view of our nature, which I find accurate.
See, that meaning is p hard to fish out of your point when you open it up with this, it gives off the idea that no one ever enjoys their characters losing an encounter.
Upon elaboration however, yes, I can see where you’re coming from and it seems a good bit more sensible.
That’s a surprisingly radical interpretation of everyday language; if I tell to a friend of mine: “you don’t like losing”, or “this guy doesn’t like losing”, he’s not going to read it as: “you always want to win in every situation and you always hate to lose” but rather see it as a generalization: “in general you don’t like losing”.
So yeah, it’s a fairly typical use of an everyday sentence: aka, it’s not on me.
“Losing” for ‘criminal’ RP would a more attractive option if it didn’t usually mean ‘an end to RP’.
Prison RP? That’s cool.
Redemption/Penal/Whatever RP? That’s cool.
Arrested and expected to reroll/rename or whatever, not cool.
Don’t even get me started on people whom claim to be RPing ‘goodguys’ who are out right sadists when it comes to punishment.
3 Likes
“I have you now, pickpocket! Time to beat you to the edge of your life and then cut off your hands. Man, I’m such a lawful good paladin.”
7 Likes