Why did Lor'themar get away with losing the Void Elves?

Lore Story
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How many is many? Do you have some evidence of their majority? I’m looking it up and it says nothing about them replenishing their numbers with pure blooded elves. In fact, in lore most helf males don’t exist and the biggest names out there are human arm candy with half human children. So how many? You have no idea. Just as you have no idea about their numbers, but even so you seem certain they can recover. How? It’s not making sense.

And they haven’t had a role or any focus on them since what? MoP?

And yeah, the Horde are the bad guys if you want to take that good or bad stance. Problem is because you people are so fixated on your notion of good and bad and the consequences you expect, the Horde cannot be the bad guys and survive. The moment the Horde wins the Alliance weeps and calls it bloody murder. I mean back when Teldrassil happened you had some douchebags here on these forums accusing the devs of being pro genocide. So yeah, kind of hard to own up to being the bad faction when people like you expect us to get the short end of the stick on account of us being bad and bad guys never win. It gets boring after some point and very annoying.

The worst thing Blizzard has done is listen to you guys. Or hire people who think like you. Anyway, I’ll be honest. I’m getting tired of this 2nd class citizen crap the Horde seems to be put through, more often as of late. If Metzen does not change the tune, I think it’s time I moved on.

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Void Elves might surprise you. These Purple Blood Elves are to be treated with caution. Just have to wait and see how Blizzard handles things. Void portal network and understanding of Quel’Thelas could make it far easier.
Could scout out farmlands - sources of water - wood stone and natural resources…

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They are my enemies that is all I need to know.

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Eh the official sources say that the majority of High Elves lived in Theramore followed by Dalaran with also some more significant numbers in Quel’Lithien and Quel’Danil.
Well Theramore is destroyed. Quel’Lithien too. The High Elves of Dalaran are so few that they have no political Gravity and in Stormwind there are still not enough to make most people know the difference between them and Blood Elves and the few that know consider them the last relics of an extinct race.

Well you are right but we have enough numbers to allow us to estimate. So unless you estimate that there before Arthas walk through Quel’thalas Millions of High Elves then the number of High Elves is at best 4 Digit and that is before they lost the majority of their people with Theramore.

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That has been the argument of those who are not supporting High Elf addition as a playable race ever since the dawn of Blood Elf addition to the Horde.

Unfortunately Blizzard gave too many unnecessary reasons for the pro High Elf part of the community to drill this subject with no end, constantly mentioning pockets of High Elf population here and there.

20 years of WoW and even the addition of the Void Elves did not cool down the zeal which some of those people are burning with.

And now probably the highest and most notorious group of High Elves was hit in the lore with Dalaran destruction. This alone will I guess be enough of an initiative to actually make them shut their traps, hide tail between their legs and show some humility when returning to Quel’thalas for reunification that Chris Metzen has spoken of.

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Actually by Lore is the Group of Quel’dorei in Dalaran only the largest since the Destruction of Theramore. By Lore is actually the place with most High Elf concentration Theramore and so with it’s desdruction most of the High Elves died too.

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It still baffles me when people try to make sense of populations, when Blizzard quite obviously doesn’t.

Also, if we’re talking spoilers, most of Dalaran looks fine in the pictures, though conquered, so I wouldn’t bet on most NPCs dying.

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Whittling away the High Elf population could be a means to not impliment it.
However Blizzard coming out and saying something like: There are no High Elves left. Will not go down well with the fandom.
Just like how Blizzard will never allow Sylvannas to be killed off permanently and it is inevitable she will return to the Horde.

With the loss of Theramore and Dalaran they were closer to extinction. But similar to how the Tauren remnants were brought back from the brink the High Elves could be as well. However there is not a unifying figure to bring the High Elves together.

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Though the Tauren where only on the Brink of extinction because of the lack of Food. With Mulgore they had enough Food for everyone again and so could easily prevent all of them from dying. But the High Elves are already dead. You can hardly bring them back unlike Blizzard turns them into the Alliance Equivalent of Mag’har.

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The problem with High Elves is their overall sense of being. From the manuals in Warcraft 3 that described Elven Priest and Sorcreress units as self imposed exiles and social rejects through later literature like Ultimate Visual Guide all the way to most recent Sylvanas book paints a bigger picture.

Current Quel’dorei, whether be it Silver Covenant or simple lonesome vagabonds are nothing more than people that failed to be part of their own society, their culture and their people.

And Blood Elves themselves are again more High Elven than High Elves themselves. Your statitiscal Sin’dorei called Thaelin Sunflower who for centuries past lived in Eversong and ran a vineyard, producing Thalassian red, suddenly didn’t change his entire metnal state and lifestyle because Kael’thas named him a Blood Elf.

His work, his input and contribution to the Thalassian people is exactly the same as it was before. He bears the same name, lives in the same house and performs the same duty as he ever had.

Where as High Elf like Auric Sunchaser completely 69’ed his life with the ridiculous desire to follow Alleria beyond Quel’thalas to see the larger world. For two decades he’s been cut off from his homeland and now he and his underlings are total refuse.

Away from Quel’thalas, taking no part in it’s reconstruction, having no connection with day by day Thalassians living in Silvermoon and contributing nothing to the overall culture that is on the rise again.

High Elves have no cultural impact and value and thus they are not playable. Despite so many ridiculous claims of others that they bear the true spirit of Quel’thalas.

No they don’t! A single vineyer from Eversong that remained strong among his people has more Quel’dorei legacy in his fingernail than entire Silver Covenant combined.

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Eh well yes but actually no. The thing about High Elfs is, that they belong to either one of three groups.
Group 1 The Misfits as you call them. It is canonically that only 10% of Blood Elf Society has a desire to leave Quel’thalas and the rest of the Blood Elves call those crazy because why leave Silvermoon when it already has everything you ever need.
Group 2 Different societies that grew over the thousand years. From the 10% which where mostly Far Striders the High Elves created different Lodges and over the thousands of years and those children and theirs grew up far away from Quel’thalas and so they are actually more connected to those Humen and Dwarves arround them then to the Elven Kingdom.
Group 3 Duty Bound in a Different World. Well we could say that this point is mout as this is not real but WW II had 1/3 Volunteers while Vietnam had 2/3. Given that 10% of Quel’thalas Population only freely moves out there may have been a great number of High Elves that joined Alleria not only for their desire for adventure and for protecting Quel’thalas but for the desire to protect their brethren and during this battle they formed bonds with the humans, dwarves and maybe Gnomes that joined the fight.
Also all the High Elves that joined Jaina’s call for expedition during the plague of the scourge because they thought that the undeads can not be stopped.
Well both of those groups survived in the end and Quel’thalas whas still standing but they formed now bounds with their alliance comrades during battle for life while QT is now part of the Horde.

So from Lore point the Cultural Misfits are mostly only lone travellers and the citizens of Quel’Danil while Group 2 are the citizens of Quel’Lithien, Stormwind and Dalaran and Group 3 are the one from Alleria’s Stronghold and Theramore.

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Incorrect. There are so much history that High Elves have with the Alliance. They have a strong bond with the Dwarves as well.

This seems to be the most plausible explanaition. High Elves are seen in other places like Arathi Highlands. So it stands to reason they still have children and others that grow outside of Quel’Thelas.
The Blood Elves backed by the Horde will prevent or oppress High Elves that will not capitulate to Blood Elves or the Horde.

That is true that there are a lot of inconsistencies.
There was never enough Void Elves to spawn an army but there you go. After the first few and news of how dangerous they are with Alleria Windrunner having a very negative reaction to the Sunwell. Most likely Void Elves will have been hunted down or driven out, The study and draw of delving into Void magic will be outlawed.

A steady stream of Blood Elf converts? or are Void Elfs able to reproduce?
Perhaps Blizzard just spawned more Void Elves in order to make Void Elves viable.
Infrastructure is needed to create and maintain an army. But yet there are enough Void Elves to wage war against the Horde.

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Lorthemar didn’t lose the void elves. Their mere presence at the Sunwell could trigger an eldritch invasion. So they were a security threat to the high kingdom at large. He showed mercy. Anasterian would have killed them all instead.

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What would Erevien have done?

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The same damm thing.

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It’s not sepecifically the Elves, though. I was very amused, when everyone pointed at the war going badly for the Alliance, when Genn said “That’s the last of the soldiers, we’ll be calling up farmers next.”, considering that implied that with decades of near constant catastrophic wars, including the total destruction of Stormwind itself in the first War, they didn’t usually have to draft those all the time. Not to mention that Orcs somehow are a world power 10 years after they were internment camp refugees that came to Kalimdor with whatever ships they could steal from Southshore in the night. The devs never cared, and frankly, neither should we. This isn’t a new phenomenon, so we really, really shouldn’t be surprised by it at this point. If we can enjoy the ride it has to be despite inconsistent populations (among other things). When Warcraft story works, it’s not because of its detailed world-building, it is because it’s stupid fun.

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A patch heavily focusing on void elves came out today and I’m angry that there aren’t any blood elves in there.

We also see how the Void elves learn from the Locus Walkers Ethernal who see how his planet and body was consumed by Old God and fight against them for years, so we can no longer say that the VEs took their knowledge and control over the Void from nothing.

I really hope we see more of his point of view on the void elves in Midnight

Lor’themar did nothing wrong by exiling a group of elves who risked their lives and sanity to better defend Quel’thalas, but Tyrande is criticized for being much more lenient towards the Nightborne :unamused:

Why any other leader of the Horde never mention this? Does the rest of the council know about this deal? I wonder if Lor’themar confessed to others about his plans, if not Jaina has a good hook for him.

however, they gave up their rights when they chose opposite political power and become separating from the blood elves, which constitute 90% elves. I agree with Everien on this point. Quel’thalas should belong only to the Blood Elves.

:skull:

:skull: :skull: :skull:

Alliance players helped get rid of the plague from Lordaeron and gave the city to Forsaken without fight even if many soildiers die under this walls. Blizzard hasn’t forgotten about the Horde, we just have more ruined cities

I hope that during Midnight Blizzard will allow Alliance players to have a hub in Bel’ameth. This city is brandly new and sit literally next to Sunwell so they don’t have to force us to stay in the enemy capital. Players are making it clear that they don’t feel comfortable seeing Horde players in Amirdrasill, I hope this will give the writers to think and they won’t turn Quel’thalas into a neutral sanctuary

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…that was always the case, so if that is meant to reference our discussion from the start, all the arguments I made already took that into account.

(1) Before Alleria saved them, Locuswalker had nothing at all to do with the research group that later became the Void Elves, (2) explaining void immunity through him isn’t a helpful explanation at all, since we know pretty much nothing about him, and (3) since he basically was invented to agree to train Alleria for no reason whatsoever, saying she was trained by him isn’t much different from saying she just randomly got gifted these skills. Not to mention that by canon Alleria still got 500 years of training from him, compared to the months that Void Elves had at the point they joined the Alliance.

That’s not to warm up the discussion again, I am just saying that you aren’t bringing up anything new with this specific point.

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The Blood Elves were part of the Alliance of Lordaeron. Under Garithos the Blood Elves left the Alliance.
You seem to be a new era of Horde then? Not everything is “council” business. Warchief Garrosh Hellscream was Warchief around Mists of Pandaria. In his campaign against the Alliance Garrosh sacrificed Blood Elf lives. This callous treatment of the Blood Elves is something that reminding them of Garithos. Thus was open to discussions with the Grand Alliance - Which is the current Alliance today.

It frankly was none of the business of the rest of the Horde. Blood Elf defection to the (Grand) Alliance.

Both you and Erevien are wrong.
The humans saved all of them from the Amani Trolls that was going to destroy Quel’Thelas. The High Elves stood against the Horde, The very Horde that the Blood Elves joined. The Blood Elves turned their back on all that they once was. Which is why they became the Blood Elves not just in name but EVERYTHING about them.

It was the Horde that ruined Undercity. But the Alliance had to assist in fixing the damage done.

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A tactic to make sure the alliance can’t use it as staging ground. It worked very well.

Not at all. The elves were part of the alliance for 5 minutes back in Warcraft 2. That glorified sidekick time was awful and I am glad Blizzard breaks with the tolkien trope of elves and humans beging friends just like the Elder Scrolls, Dragon Age, Witcher and DND did before them.

Not officially just Alleria and her closer friends.

We preserved our heritage by reclaiming our land and honoring those who actually mattered in the grander history. The House of Sunstrider and Sylvanas.

Lor’themar banished them from Silvermoon. Not the whole Horde. Umbric wanted to snitch to the blue team from the very start and was never honest about his intentions. He isn’t for using the void. He is against the idea the Horde is in a partnership with the rest of Quel’thalas which all greater groups agree with(Farstriders, Blood Knights and Magisters. Hell throw in the Reliquary too). And without Alleria he and his followers would be dead.

I think Suramar and Telogrus would be the perfect hubs actually. And Silvermoon gets its own Horde aligned revamp and how the finished city in all its red and golden glory once more to see for all people that blood elves are infact the best race in all of Azeroth :smiley:

And we were even when we helped the Alliance to get Gilneas back.

What? Speaking the truth. Freedom is worthless if Thrall kicked the Orcs straight into poverty by settling in Durotar.

Every high elf is armcandy for some male human character by default.

The humans are responsible for pretty much all bad things that happened to the Sin’dorei since Warcraft 3. That can not be debated or denied.

Because it isn’t a big deal. Other Horde races straight up execute traitors and Baine himself send Magatha and her tribe straight to Tanaris.

A group of people mastering the most dangerous force in the universe and would all go insane if it wasn’t the thing called alliance aligned plot armor. Actually the patch proves Rommath right since that rift walker straight up gets corrupted by the Harbringer and has to be killed by Alleria.

And every other sane person who sees the shadows for what they really are.

Cuz the blood elves know what loyalty to your homeland really means.