Why do you like or dislike BFA?

From purely story point .
Did you like something about BFA ?
What did you not like about BFA ?

Honestly I have been leveling a few characters recently and the questing and story is not that bad .
We have a ton of quests , many events and stories . I think the main story is close to 300 quests or more .
0 sap and friendliness
Factions , War , Old gods , Titans , Naga , there is practically almost anything from wow lore , if we exclude demons .

It is not classic in the essence that it is not laid back , but it has it’s charm and frankly both the horde and the alliance stories are great .

On the dislike side I would say that I did not like very much the whole Sylvanas > Jailor twist .
The war did not reach the right conclusion . We had this crazy build up and than a face flop >> It is Sylvanas’s fault . Lets beat N’Zoth .

The whole genocide of the elves and the horde getting betrayed from within and booted again , felt kinda wrong when playing from horde perspective .

But other than that honestly it was supper fun adventuring trough Zandalar and Kul Tiras .
The zone are varied ( deserts , mountains ,forests , underwater) . I loved Bwonsamdi and the Nazmir jungle as well as Vol’dun (I’m objective here cause I like deserts in WoW) . The whole blood trolls , Zul and G’hun was great and ended too fast .

On the alliance side Stormsong Valley and the Cthulhu vibe was cool and the Witches story with the Drust was interesting (but it ended waaaay too fast)

So overall from a questing and story perspective BFA is kinda good , even very good I might say . Definitely MILES ahead of Shadowlands and especially Dragonflight . It is a total pity I cannot level from 0 to 70 just in BFA and that I out level it somewhere in the middle of the second zone if I do all quests .

What do you guys say ? Which parts of BFA did you like and dislike ?
Did BFA get treated poorly just because of poor gameplay (artifact power ets)

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I guess BfA kinda seems like the “good old days” right now… I don’t really think it was judged too harshly, though. It’s like looking back at the worse MCU entries from before Endgame now. It might be good compared to crap.

I certainly liked the leveling experience. The quest zones were actually pretty great, when you didn’t have to escort a drunk around. Kul Tiras (including Mechagon) and Zandalar were wonderful additions to the world, and they really hit the right tone to make it feel immersive, be it a swamp full of trollish cultists, a dark witchwood, or some formerly peaceful valley where everything was just not quite right. And while they didn’t even try to really tie the Alliance into it, the Uldir-Raid was a great finale for Zandalar. Top marks on that. Well… good marks at least. The depiction of the Zandalari was generally way too enlightened, and way too Wakanda, but I guess that’s Warcraft cheese that we are used to, so I don’t really hold that against them too much. And there was the Jaina arc that was the third rerun of the same character progression… But I guess it didn’t ruin too much.

That doesn’t really save the whole addon for me, though.

It started with a main feature: Allied races. Horribly rushed stories that changed the factions forever without any care for the long-term consequences. Some allied races were just unnecessary, some were just bovine excrement. Void Elves were my breaking point, where I finally accepted that the devs as a whole didn’t really care about their story. While a lot of that technically came in 7.3.5. I do count them as a BfA feature, and it kinda set the tone for what to expect.

Speaking of Legion… The transition from Legion to BfA was a joke. They just unceremoniously dropped the class orders without any explanation whatsoever. They didn’t even try to make it seem as if the player was one continuous character, they just seamlessly transitioned him from a powerful neutral leader to some special forces faction soldier. Simultaneously they created the Champions of Azeroth faction that tried to control the fallout of that litte issue of the giant sword sticking out of the world, which might have been of interest to pretty much all the class orders… Nothing came of it anyways, since whyever would we expect a stabbing by the giant sword of space satan to have any serous effects? That’s a problem for future Blizzard, that Metzen can clean up 6-10 year later, or something…

Then there was what supposedly started the faction war: Azerite. That one just fell mostly flat. It worked well enough as a MacGuffin in the context of the “Saving Azeroth”-Plot, where the player hero just collected energy for his personal upgrades and the Super Sayian transformation, I guess, but as a driving force of the factions it did nothing. We didn’t really feel the technical or magical progress that necessitated a recource war at all. All opportunities to show its potential they threw away. Why the everloving heck didn’t the writers use Azerite in the burning of Teldrassil, or to explain Jaina’s flying siegebreaker ship? As it was, Azerite wasn’t even a storm in a tea kettle, it was just nothing. A red herring that distracted from… the lack of any real plot, I guess? After the addon was over it wasn’t even worth a mention.

Next there is the faction war… At this point I almost miss it, but since we could always predict that a faction war addon with an evil war leader would have to end with the ousting of said war leader by the united factions, I always thought it would be pointless. And it was. But well, we could have hoped for “pointless, but epic”. That’s not what we got, though. If the Siege of Lordaeron and its cinematics had set the tone for the conflict, it would have been awesome. And that’s kinda what we were sold with the concept of war fronts. But… nope. Almost all of the war that we could see played out in some special ops missions on Zandalar and Kul Tiras, because… erm… the factions needed boats, or something. Though it had no repercussions for the war, when the fleets were destroyed in 8.2, but whatever… And the war fronts were just some strange minigame that didn’t get any story content at all.
So the faction war came down to some rescue and sabotage missions, a short movie about a sad orc warrior, and… the mission table descriptions, that told us what cool stuff could actually be happening around the world, which we didn’t get to see. Oh, and we raided some troll city for working with the Horde, instead of Horde cities. Yeah, not really a triumph, either…
So the whole thing fell flat to me.

And then there was Sylvanas. Yeah, 'nuff said.

But well, the real enemy was always N’zoth, so even if the faction war was a dud, at least we got a capable and menacing villain that had been build up for a decade or so. Stormsong worked, we got a constant barrage of prophecies and hints, including a kinda random mini raid, and the way N’zoth got his freedom in the Azshara raid was actually nicely done. We were thoroughly manipulated into helping him, and while we were kinda stupid not to see it, it was plausible enough.
But then we got his patch and… yeah, he was a dud as well. The master schemer invited us to his realm of madness… and we got an immunity cloak and just murdered him, using only methods that he already knew we had access to.

Oh, and there was Azshara as well. We saw, we came, we punched her face in. Facing Azshara wasn’t exactly the grand finale that one might have expected with her buildup, but we’ve had worse, I guess? Just seemed so boring…

So… I guess one can still recommend leveling through BfA zones. But the main story was a mess, full of missed chances and ideas that could have been cool, but weren’t. I wouldn’t rank BfA higher than DF, to be honest, even with the more warcraft-y tone. And in a sense I hate the “they almost got it here and there, but ruined it” more than the “yeah that’s not for me” we have now.

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The whole Void storyline.

Visiting Ny’alotha and Nazjatar was amazing experience. Azshara and N’zoth herself are great characters I was never so hyped to see new villains, after years of foreshadowing (Azshara began to be mentioned even in wc3!) Exploring void lore was really fun, especially after all the easter eggs from the legion (Emerlad Nightmare, Xal’atath and more)

The end of the last raid was disappointing but I still had a lot of fun.

Zandalar and Kul’tirans was nice. (especially like drust story) but not mindblowing. Way more like the whole of Mechagon Island and feel this zone is really underrated location

Sweeping the Night Elves under the rug.

The whole BFA started with them, but they’re immediately forgotten. Which isn’t well seen as the main victim of war. We won’t see their heroes anywhere outside of Darkshore. Malfurion and Tyrande didn’t react at all to the return of Azshara (their former nemesis) or rise of N’zoth (he make Emerald Nightmare continued to exist caused Ysera death)

They should be one of the main characters of this expansion. But we mostly follow sad human boy and sad old orc :expressionless: At least Tyrande should get similar screentime like Saurfang or Jaina.

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@Wimbert ,

I honestly can not argue with anything you said . It is true that the story was

full of missed chances and ideas that could have been cool, but weren’t.

But this gave me an interesting though . Is BFA the only expansion that actually handled the story like that .
When you mention the class halls I remember I thought that too , but the second thing that came to me was . "Well that has happened before … many times , so whatever . " We had this whole commander thing in WoD just before the class halls and where that ended .

If we look at the expansions before BFA , we had this crazy build up with WoD . Iron HORDE BAD BAD VERY VERY VERY BA … flop . Why the hell did we even bother going there other than bringing back Gul’dan , who ALSO … flop and died to bring back Illidan … who went from savior to villain to savior … and brought us to Arugs , which surprise again … flopped big time . Turns out it wasn’t really that bad up there . We had these broken who could live with the demons for 20000 years just fine (not sure if my counting is right here) , so we just went trough the front door , punched everyone there and stopped a trans dimensional cosmic crusade in about 3 hours .

Honestly … how is that any different from N’zoth , Azshara , Azerite , the Sword and everything else .

At this point it feels like either the writers are doing this on purpose or they can’t finish any story properly . They get this cool idea , they build it up and than … flop . The last time a story came to a natural conclusion was the Siege of Ogrimmar in Pandaria . And then they ruined it by whisking away Garrosh on a dimension trip .

Honestly the last few expansions feel like they are written by someone who is writing an essay for the first time . The person knows that an essay should have introduction , thesis and conclusion , but has no idea how to do that . So we get something like this :slight_smile:

Topic : Which character did you not like in the story and why ?
Introduction : I did not like the clown , because he is bad . He is bad because he does bad things .
Thesis : The clown is bad , but he got bad because the bunny bit him . The bunny bit him , because it met a crocodile and he was a demon in disguise . There was also space villain with a gun who liked cheese with wine . And also the guy which was fishing , but in reality was very important .
Conclusion : If they all had more cheese , no one would have turned out bad .

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Agreed. Warcraft works best, when everything and everyone is cheesy.

And here is the difference: Rule of cool. Gul’dan was just a fun character to have around and while his defeat wasn’t anything special, him getting poetic justice by being disintegrated by Fel was awesome to watch. Defeating the Legion at the height of their power was ridiculous as well, but we were too busy dealing with the ridiculous balls of the Scar-Man, when he just decided to invade the invaders and to roast that chime, and the random cameo of Sargeras and his sword to complain. No these things didn’t make anything less ridiculous, but they certainly made them more fun.

WoD on the other hand had pretty much the same problem as BfA, in that it couldn’t deliver on its hype. Not because we defeated the Iron Horde too easily, but because there was nothing epic about it. In the pre-releade material like the comics and introduction videos all the Warlods were cool. In the game? Not so much. “Draenor is freeeeee!”. yeah, muck off, that’s no more cool than the badly animated anti-N’zoth-beam.

Despised it. I hated the burning of Teldrassil, I hated what it did to the Horde, I hated the snoozeville old god stuff they shoe-horned in towards the end and I hated the legacy and impact it left on Shadowlands and Dragonflight.

Easily the worst and most damaging expansion the game’s suffered.

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I liked the potential it had, the possible forward momentum it offered, especially from an rp perspective. It had a lot of potential. I was fine with the burning for that reason, not so much with blizzards ‘hohoho you never know’ nonsense. We all knew, blizzard isn’t that out of field. Ok blizzard, we all see every ‘twist’ coming ten miles away.

I hated the execution, can’t convoluted and confused as it was. I hated zandalar generally- an opportunity to see a troll empire in form and it was functionally another cata era meme joke thing.

Generally bfa a squandered mess that could have been -great- with competent people at the helm. Shadowlands too tbh.

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I dislike BFA for rushing through anticipated villians
I believe it was always intended to be a rushjob since inception, people not taking to the poorly written faction conflict was never a reason they stepped away from it. This is the blizzard that couldn’t go back on covenants because they were too far into its design by the time they announced it; they wouldn’t have been flexible enough to drop the war content and switch to naga + old god unless it was always planned from the start.

That’s what Azshara and N’zoth were killed in a rush; to give us Shadowlands.
That’s why I dislike BFA

Thank you for listening to my ted talk

Azshara isn’t dead, though.

Honestly: the whole faction war theme

Because as mentioned multiple times in the past, it didn’t make sense after Legion.
Azeroth United thought the class order Hall and stand together to face the legion, only having the Horde became dumb and the boogeyman who willingly and without question following the warchief into war which didn’t make sense (start a war to prevent a bigger war…which is more stupid because the result is after all the same: a great war after all)
And the other Horde leaders have seemingly no problems with the war preparation.
Like they didn’t learn from garrosh, at last teldrasil the leadership shoud have intervene like :“stop, we had this once and we know where that path lead, we won’t repat the same mistakes and stopp that madness.”

Then, it was very pro horde, the alliance took the silithus bait…without question.
The horde sweep without efforts trough the n11 lands and push the N11 with ease back…which is laughable enough, ignoring the Guerilla capabilities if the Kaldorei.
Malfurion getting ambushed by axe orc sauerfang…which is ridiculous.
And then…teldrasil…the catapults who fires over several kilometres to set the giant tree in minutes on fire…

The attachek on UC in which the alliance was completely unprepared and fell again for the trap and getting nearly crushed only been saved by deus ex jaina.
But after all, it wasn’t even victorys since nothing achieved but heavy casualties.

The Horde stornwind scenario where they can land undetected in the middle of stormwind and of corse for some reasons the know about a random shafts who lead directly into the stockade and free zul and talnji, slaughter multiple 7.legion soliders, City guards and the returning lordaeron army, set the harbour and city ablaze and escape genn& jaina.

The is only defeat after defeat & humiliation for the alliance who got their moments to shine only to have them not entirely forgotten , to not abandoned the alliance comm, evern those moments were short lived.
Dazar alor: we killed only the king and then pulled back…for the cost of an entire army and Zandalar ally with the Horde finally.
And worst alliance wasn’t allowed to press on by Moral reasons…in a total war in which the enemy not hesitate to kill.
Darkshore: yeah, Nathanos is even with an God buffed tyrande and managed escaping laughing with 3 sentries for the casual if one valkyr which made a difference sind that returned in Sanctum of domination …

Wow…great revenge…
And then Blizzard decide, whops…2 moments for the alliance is a little bit much…lets destroy the Alliance fleet for no reason to smack them again.
The fleet which was the reason why we travelled to kul tires and helped there.
Basically, make our work nor nothing.

And with that come the next big letdown: nazjatar and azshara.
Both had potential ti be an own addon because if the weight abd Blizzard decided to them in a contant patch.
Same goes bext with n’zoth and black empire, again that would have been contant to fill another addon, instead just he was rushed abd utilised for the final contand patch…in a way which was more the hilarious.

The faction war could have worked…but the timing was wrong right after Legion.
And it was a repeat if the garrosh story.
The alliance, specifically the n11 were just a punching bag who act stupid and only react and us only save by the horde infighting.

Dealt with then, the end result remains the same
Rather then being given the world building and storytelling and buildup they deserved, both Azshara and N’zoth’s storylines were rushed through, each in a single patch, just to give us shadowlands. Especially considering for both characters BFA was their actual ingame debut, before that we only had hints and mentionings of them.
Worst trade deal in history

Hm, not usually. Dead means out of the story, if they don’t pull some ressurection or retcon crap, defeated means you get to try again. Basically, Nazjatar was a disappointing detour that didn’t really change anything for the Naga plot in the long run. Nothing and no one of relevance was lost, and they can still use Azshara in the future. If you didn’t like her power level in her palace, where she supposedly wasn’t using her full capabilities anyways, since she wanted us to use azeroth juice to free N’zoth, it can always be more eppropriate next time. Her storyline didn’t end, we just got a kind of random chapter.

I’m not arguing against it being a rushjob, and indeed, you can argue that having pointless detours is especially bad, if you consider how rushed the rest was, but I don’t think the way we dealt with Azshara specifically is that useful a criticism.

Things i dislike:

  • We won faction war, in the traitors cinematic Alduin crying about how few troops they have left even with the Horde’s traitors troops, and that this would not be enough. But ofc, good guys plot-armor prevails and writers kuck Horde out of an another total victory. (Like wtf why we just not carpet bomb all Alliance Cities with mana-bombs?).
  • Hobo-gnomes race and their trash dump (literally) location. With annoying dailies.
  • 69 IQ of the writers who wasted such strong story premise as in-Horde factions friction, which has never been properly explored. That one is pissed me more that anything else.
  • Dumb traitors quest-line which forced upon you, up to certain point. Like you must assault the horde ship and kill all soliders there in order to save some Alliance Scum. Disgusting, i just quit playing on this part, letting Bain to do his dirty work himself, while i was afk.

Things i like:

  • Nazjatar
  • Queen Ashara is the best. Her model is so detailed and insanely good animated. I want more of her in the future expansions.
  • Nzoth wispers.
  • Talanji is the best.
  • Zandalar’s city.
  • Nyalota
  • Very good Zone’s stories.

acutally, the alliance won the war, even blizzard stated taht at some point.
and Anduin states tehy have few trops left- so thy conscript farmers now (which is alwas the last resot) and he saiy, tehy have man for ONE final attack, he dint say that wount be enugh.

hello erevien -die aldor, you know why the horde wont get an total victory (same goes the other wax arroudn) because that woud eliminate the otehr facion and woud remove half the playr base who pay fot the game.
Also, IF bliizad woud have been logic, th alliance coud have just use the vindicar orbital canon to destoy OG, UC ans other Horde citys and military instalations, heck even theri fleet from safe distance…,heck horde cant me more like that blizz convienently forgatt that one…

Gameplay wise the world-quests were a downgrade from Legion, both due to being generally longer as well as the removal of quick party finding.

Storywise it started of on an aweful foundation by making the horde the main instigator again. They could have used Genn to persuade Tyralion into vanquishing the “demon” filth covering Loaderon making UC the fist casualty in the war while the Horde was preoccupied with a certain object in Silithus.

And the following story wasn’t much better with sylvanas continuing being a mustache twiling villain who was all talk and no show. Oh and something something old gods, discarding two major locations as nothing.

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It’s funny how Alliance win all wars off-game, but nothing is showed in real world.
(Of course Alliance had to win all wars because they are the imbeciles that forgive genocidal enemies)

If Blizzard devs used logic nothing of this would have happened. They are using RTS logic in an world-building game. In an RTS you can have an infinite number of grunts as long as you have the resources to produce them. In a real world situation, numbers matter. I mean, The orcs that escaped Lordaeron on a few ships, after a few skirmishes where they lost some of their numbers, posed a threat to a civilization of immortal beings that growed during 10.000 years.

and this is something alliance players (at leat in the german froum) complaind about, if the horde had vicories it shown immenditly ingame, if the alliance had ones, it not the case , it never shown or only mention in books/ other ouside media.

And becasue of that alliance player fell tehy have the shorter end of the stick in terms of the conflict.

of corse, like even teldrasil woud have never happend because the ther horde leader woud have interven sylvanas intetion for a total war because tehy had that one ealier, the leassons learnd from garrosh, of even teldrasil woud happen, tehy woud stage a coup d’etat against sylvans to remove her, again not the repat the same mistacke.

A) The splitting of media - quite a lot of backstory is in the books and novellas and they are needed to better understand the picture and motivations of the conflict

B) The fact that they obviously made Sylvanas the big bad and made her a servant of the jailer. Changing motivations from strategically winning the war to inflicting as much damage as possible. - still this allowed for redemption arc so her character isn’t killed/scraped, just doing dailies in the Maw

C) I liked the burning of the tree, just not the execution.
First catapults shooting that far means the Horde has ICBM capabilities which is never used again.
Second Nelvs not being able to shoot those payloads down because it’s obvious with the Horde positioning the catapults in that direction.
Third is making it seem like it has no strategic value - bringing back the point A where they split media.

D) also a side note, not just BfA, normalization of portals in lore. They became too common.

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Yeah, I agree with that one in general. If portals were so common and practical, then there would be a lot more sudden sneak attacks in war, local supply issues would be solved in better ways than real life…the whole story would face ramifications which it hasn’t, really.

Well, I don’t disagree, but considering how populations, distances, ressources, travel speed, and pretty much anything else that makes up logistics wasn’t defined to begin with, I can’t really feel the change…

Like in that Q&A by the alleged lore historian:

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