Why do you like or dislike BFA?

If that was the case why would they have to rebuild? Mechagnomes Prince understood his failures and must retake that mangtle again.

A lot of the Kul Tiran fleet was lost as Sylvannas brought us to the trap of Azshara.

Thrall was once the most powerful Shaman on Azeroth.
Tidesages were almost captured and undone by void lords and old gods.

The last of the Waycrest line. They are almost extinct. The Drustvar people need leadership.

Orgimmar is a bastion of Horde power. The Horde does not care for archiecture and aesthetics.

Wealth is an important thing to rebuild and or prosper. A poverty stricken Zandalari won’t be able to. Nurtuing new generations - replenishing the workforce and providing them families which could lead to more families.

Expansions does not always work. But growth means that they will be need for expansion.

Without their Sunwell what does the Blood Elves have? Velen saved the Blood Elf people. Be grateful.

Night Elves were pretty much the only ones opposing Horde deforestation.

Lies. The Alliance is constantly reacting to the Horde.

A city should look be good. Not like dung thrown together.

Lol what the delusion is real lmao.

No one needs gold when everyone is dead.

In what? 100 years? No thanks.

You are just like Kurst you should marry.

We never needed it. Another retcon to make us lose Kael twice.

No one wages war over trees neither in RL nor in any other fantasy franchise. Night elves are so stupid its laughable.

YOU WON THE WAR YOU DOOKER!

Talk to the Horde architects and builders then.
Gazlowe is famous for rebuilding Orgrimmar. It still looks like the same old.

The Horde lives on.

It won’t take 100 years. There are many Horde children around. They will not be children forever.

Who?

Blood Elves have not done much.

For some of the denizens of Azeroth. Nature is important and they will fight to protect it. Warhammer Fantasy has the Wood Elves. Which are a lot more militant in its defence.

A war that the Horde started. Genocided Night Elves and burning their children alive. Can’t start a fight/war then complain you lost.
Why does the Alliance always wait for the next time the Horde does something?

Saurfang is dead. Move on.

Or we make equality and give the Orcs a city that equals Stormwind.

Orphans maybe but no soldiers.

the male human paladin that keeps liking your posts.

We are ignored after Velen stole our story.

Athel Loren isn’t nearly as huge as Ashenvale. Also there aren’t many forests on Azeroth and are usually owned by the alliance so w ehave no choice.

Yes I can. And I will keep complaining about it until the Alliance finally loses.

The Horde is not just Saurfang alone.
Bane is still alive. Thrall seems to have returned, The Nightborne have recovered from their withered state and could be a threat in future. Thalyssra is trying to learn the same Magecraft used by Jaina who used her fathers vessel to ruin Sylvannas’ plan. The Maghar although defeated on Draenor have come to replenish the ranks of the Horde with new Orcs.

The Horde has it’s own builders. Stop envying Alliance architecture and asthetics.

Should those Orphans grow up to take arms against the Alliance then once again the Alliance would be forced to neutralise Horde threats.

You talk as if the Alliance has not had losses. Jaina sold her father for peace with the Horde only to have that same Horde blow up Theramore. That is a huge L, the Alliance also lost Rhonin a very talented Mage.

Typical alliance arrogance you entitled ookers never change.

I bet the two of you would make for a hilarious episode on some blind date reality show.

I think killing off Varian made sense. Anduin was right there to pick up the pieces, and he had a very different disposition compared to his father. I think there could have been many interesting narrative conflicts to explore within the Alliance (… but they went nowhere with it).

Vol’jin rose to power in MoP in a story that, for having been told inside of WoW, was fairly good. But he never got to do anything, and when they shanked him they did not have a replacement ready. Sylvanas never made any sense and the end result of that particular narrative thread is something most people choose to not think about these days. However, there was no troll in place to take over for the Darkspear tribe either.

What they did to Vol’jin was criminal just for parity on Varain cuz entitled alliance palyers complained during the beta.

The leadership thing has been a mess most of the time, really.

Thrall:
Yeah, until Cata WoW just wasn’t Thrall’s story at all. Which is fine with me, I think grand quest giver is a much better role for the leader of a people in an RPG than protagonist.
That changed in Cata. It wasn’t pretty. From then on his arc was mostly about dissociating from the Horde and focussing on his family and his spiritual journey. Hard to see the story benefit that came from that, and hard to overlook Metzen’s projection issues here. Then Metzen was gone, and Thrall got performance issues after killing Garrosh the wrong way.
And his return in BfA was pretty much irrelevant for now.

Varian:
They made a mystery of his absence in Vanilla+TBC, then they just stopped that storyline in the game and solved the problem in a series of comics that had a convoluted story about Varian being split into 2 persons, a depressed noble, and a competetive gladiator, and made him find balance to become one person again, or some strange and unnecessary stuff like that.
But then in Wrarth and most of Cata he was basically just angry Alliance Garrosh, that had to be leashed by Jaina to not break things too much. Not exactly what the comics led one to expect, but fine, who cares about the comics anyways? So they solved his rage problem… outside of the game, in a novel, by magic. Because it turns out he was actually posessed by the rage of a wolf god that had somehow taken a liking to him. Sure…
And after that was solved he was just… a bland “insert noble king here” that hadn’t much to do with anything that came before. Which incedentally was the point where they invented the High King, because obviously that was the guy that the Alliance trusted with supreme command without reservations.

Garrosh:
Too many cooks. They tried out different things, and then fast-tracked his downfall, when they needed a villain. To be honest, he still is one of the more interesting faction leaders we had, and while the final decision on his character came down to “in every N*zi there is an insecure little child that wasn’t loved enough and will do the vilest things for approval” it’s kinda relatable enough. Too bad they should have known that the faction pride they were noruishing would make the player base identify with their faction leader more than the devs were comfortable with. Ooopsie.

Vol’jin:
Yeah, that one was basically a scrapped idea. They had just started building Vol’jin up, who hadn’t been much of a character before, when they killed him off, because the new story leadership preferred Sylvanas. Yeah, that was a waste that should never have happened.

Anduin:
I kinda disliked Anduin from the start since the Shattering, and never felt that he really fit the setting, but ok, that was years ago, and the boy was a manlet, when his daddy died and he had to grow up. With no leading experience, way too much trust in people who don’t deserve it, an almost pacifistic stance on violence, and pragmatic faction leaders and generals around him that should easily be able to dominate him, this could have been interesting. But interesting would have meant politics, and who wants that crap?
So while they had him moping around for half of Legion, and then had him do nothing else for the rest of the Addon, he was of course uncontested High King and leader of the Alliance and rerolled as a sad paladin. His weaknesses were neither criticzed nor abused, the world just changed to accomodate him. Yeah, of course hardliner Genn would be fine with him, because, you see, Genn lost a son, Anduin a father, what’s a few major differences in politics compared to that bond? And Jaina just had to get over her tantrums, before she was fit to face Anduin again, obviously.
Ending his reign with him being broken by his duties was not a bad idea, but then they threw in the whole Jailer mess, and mind control that cn only serve to muddy up his arc. I can only hope that they’re not going for a “return of the King” story and more of a “journey of self discovery” plot on that one, because a throne in the world of Warcraft and Anduin are a world-bending misfit.

Sylvanas:
…nah, not touching that corpse, ugh. That story is dead, and I don’t want to risk reviving any part of it.

Turalyon:
Oh yeah, we have a “by any means necessary”-hardliner on the Alliance throne now, this will be good! Even better they hinted at a possible conflict with Genn and Shaw! Now there is some potential!
…five years later…
Aaaany minute now…
He will do something… eventually…
…oh, there is an Anduin cinematic… yeah…

The Horde Council:
Lol.

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What council lmao.

The problem with him was he suddenly the in the middle of the mess and for the story with significant influence, just remember how he earned his nickname “green jesus”

Are the commics even canon?
I mean even in the human heritage questline they let that open what really happened.

And how was that bad, i mean, first a hardliner on the Throne seems not too bad.
Secondly, he was indeed intended as counterpart to garrosh which third, i cant understand people why they had problems with him because of his more aggressive approach while also praising garrosh as “interesting” character who shared the same.
Little sidenote: he was hot-headed but also had his calm and honorable side even during Wotlk, look at the events if Sauerfang Jr. Death (alliance side)
Where he ordered Muradin and his man to stand down and let sauerfang to his ton to mourn his death.

I don’t understand why people had an problem with the council
What better-another warchief who had bis tantrums and abuse his powers to start another conflict and then gets deposed?
The horde finally resized that the warchief system iat bad and outdated, it grant one person to much poeer and the horde as tool of war- garrosh and sylvanas are the beste example why it didn’t work.

Is actual canon still a thing? Doesn’t that require at least a token adherence to concistency?
Independent of that, the comics certainly were officially canon back then, no matter if they still are. That we aren’t sure only highlights the problem.

It isn’t necessarily bad, but the inconsistency with what came before and after is.

A council without political tensions and internal factioning is pretty much a waste, from the writing perspective. I really don’t care if you can think of worse options, but I 'll seriously doubt your imagination if you can’t think of better. I don’t care if it makes sense for the people of the Horde, if it doesn’t help to give me an interesting story in the future.

Alliance bias is the main problem of Bfa so the entire expansion was garbage from the start.

Horde started the 4th war the Alliance ended it.
As in wars there were many lost but the Alliance and even the Horde began rebuilding. Battle for Azeroth demonstrates that the Horde are a real and present threat to Alliance civilians. After burning Night Elf civilians alive in their own homes. The Horde would have used the twisted corpse of Derek Proudmoore as a biological weapon to inflict the maximum damage possible to Kul Tiras.

The Alliance neutralised Horde threats and answered Horde aggression. Once defeated there was controlled aggression of Alliance forces.

The good thing about Battle for Azeroth is that it was a good test of what each of the races are capable of. More specifically what they bring to their faction. Since there was a war going on. It was good to see player armies clashing across Zandalar and Kul Tiras.

The writers started the 4th war and they wrote the Horde in as losers at every turn. I guess the Horde should work on whining harder than the Alliance.

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People arguing with Erevien about BFA’s faction war is peak BFA story forums flashback.

It feels like its 2019 and patch 8.2 just got released again. Only Zarao is missing right now.

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And there the forum hasn’t been nearly as active in… probably years. It’s still the same old classics that get people posting.

I don’t know if I should be impressed or depressed. I guess I’ll follow you in just feeling nostalgic.

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I mean, what is there to talk about? Dragonflight is the definition of “safe” and “inoffensive”, which are not bad things on their own, but aren’t catalysts for conversation, either. The only interesting thing from DF is Iridikron, who surprisingly survived DF and is apparently a major player in the War Within, but there is not much to discuss about him, as he hasn’t been expanded upon for obvious reasons.

The War Within and the upcoming trilogy are far more interesting, but until we start getting details, there is not much to discuss, either.

WoW always thrived on controversial story decisions, regardless of the quality of said stories. Crapshows keep emotions high and people engaged by arguing with each other. What are the most talked about pieces of story throughout WoW’s history, by far? It’s not the WotlK, or the Arthas story in general, almost everybody loves that. It’s not Illidan and his edgy of the week plot, you either like or dislike the dude. We talk about them yes, but not to the extend of the Cataclysm-MoP era, especially the whole Garrosh saga and the faction war, or of BFA’s faction war. What do they have in common? The fact that they are both about the factions, which make people passionate in a sports team kind of way, and that they are both controversial crapshows.

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You are under the assumption the Horde only exists with honor in it which is totally false.