would be nice if they’d atleast try re-iterate on breathe and try to overall improve it…
Havoc dh got nerfed way hardet than frost dk dont cry lol
I cannot begin to tell you how eye-wateringly untrue this is as somebody who played DK up until 2H was removed; I’m not really sure what narrative you’re trying to push or what you even have to gain from doing it, but it’s very transparently false
No, I am not saying it was always BETTER than DW or even always ON PAR with DW, but “never competitive” is completely and utterly false and any death knight player can very easily tell you that from past experience
If you want to have a discussion, please do so in good faith and not whilst trying to press some self-imagined - and ultimately false - truth
2 Likes
Really?
because i can actually link you to the recent Update between top players who directly state what im saying is true.
i think your mistaken… and clearly unfamiliar with logs if u play 2handed Frost was balanced with DW with the Rune disparities and more that naturally existed.
or im sorry, maybe u think DK Theorycrafters also lie?
Unless u speak of pvp where im obviously talking pve
Yeah
No I don’t think I am
Has it been drastically different at times in comparison to DW? Sure, maybe
Has it been drastically different at ALL times in comparison to DW? No, absolutely not - you’re very blatantly overexaggerating
I’m not saying it has always been comparable. I’m not even saying it has MOSTLY been comparable. I’m saying that it has not ALWAYS been drastically different, and implying otherwise is disingenuous
I think i did state… that in WoTLK and earlier the class Was very flexible in terms… but it Did reach a point where 2handed Frost just became More and more underwhelming comparitively to DW>. it became a growing bias and by MoP and WoD it was consistently Underperforming.
IIRC in MoP it was only a dps increase if it was like a 15-20 ilevel Increase…
2H wasnt viable past the first tier of each expantion since cata, specialy with DW buffing froststrike back then and mastery scalling wich 2H never had proper scalling.
not only was 2H weaker than DW, it was also weaker than mostly everything else, it was still fun to quest with
it was in legion that they force us to use obliterate in DW spec because of KM, else cata, mop and wod was all about using as much runes and death runes on howling blast and froststrike with KM and as RP dump because you could get decent haste and full stack mastery until no tomorrow.
it was with great joy when i say the KM rank2 in beta and instantly though “yeah, that kinda fixes the 2H obliteration scaling problem”
I stated my opinions were PvE only.
I also never said I agree with blizzards design, I merely stated why I think they’re doing this.
Also that makes very little sense to delete a class because BoS is still a thing, frost isn’t the be all and end all of DKs they offer more then just that specc.
Plenty of speccs have seen this same treatment in both PvE and PvP. They have repeatively held multiple speccs to designs the playerbase screech against.
We are talking about a Dev team that seriously argued ankh is a skill based defensive for shaman 🤦🤦
As I stated, I quit my DK in Legion, blizzard are stubborn AF when it comes to upholding class designs. I’m at no sense of agreement with what they were doing.
Your merely mistaking a pessismistic/defeatist point of view on a subject. I ain’t saying blizzards doing the right thing. I’m saying blizzards incapable of doing the right thing.
We all know BoS is a square hammered into a circular hole, it has flaws it’s far too niche and it doesn’t work in multiple environments and they need to come up with a new theme for DK
But you saw what it took to overturn shadow priests. And sadly DKs don’t seem to make as much noise on NA forums 
I know it’s hyperbolic and downright dumb to say this. but i’m feeling a little like the joker here so lets remove dual wield for frost for 5 years. then see where we stand, and how those people… plus a certain DK on the american forums that i think you all know by now would think about that(of course, the BoS parasites need to be removed first)
The recent nerfs to DK’s didn’t only effect the individual abilities, but also some of the talents as well, reducing their value. BoS wasn’t that much affected by it.
Obliteration nerfed because of PoF CD and duration
Icecap nerfed because of PoF CD
Murderous Efficiency nerfed because of PoF CD and duration (combo with Obliteration.)
The Obliterate nerfs can be argued to be a balance tweak, which in of itself is fine. But PoF nerf too? and not just 1 but 2 nerfs in the same run?
It is by far a over nerf and it’s obvious to why it’s happened, they dont want the possibility of players using 2handed frost, that’s just as simple as it is and a foresight most had when it came to them bringing it back.
Sadly blizzard push what they want players to do above what players want to do. It’s irritating and increasingly arrogant of them but they won’t change.
They’ve never wanted 2handed to outperform frost and sadly they will just nerf this everytime it gets close.
The difference is we think differently to what is considered bad and good.
I consider the optimal method of playing a class to be good, and every other way to be bad it’s that simple, there’s no grey here.
Your either maximising your character or intentionally gimping yourself.
You may think 10% DPS loss is fine. But this approach to design is what created convenants.
Taking 2handed frost while DW outperforms it is no worse then taking a non optimal convenant and the statistic of players who’ve played the game like this is likely who blizzard think their pleasing with convenants.
It’s why I gave up my DK because I know I don’t enjoy every playstyle that class offers anymore. Since the legion changes I simply cannot. Where warrior I can enjoy every variant of gameplay to it so I’m at no risk of disliking a optimal build.
We just play the game different 
it’s not disingenuous to do this. I’d consider disingenuous to make out as if 2handed was fine back in MoP and WoD. It wasn’t optimal in the slightest and I wouldn’t encourage anyone to play a class for a non optimal build. It will just result in them being removed from content
So yes it’s pessmistic as all hell. But I’d rather approach every build as it could be optional then push a narrative of “blizzard will fix it” or “players won’t mind”.
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