i agree with everything apart from time. people who are at the top have sacrificed the most time + energy. those who have been there long have made the sacrifice in the past and because of the fundamentals they dont need to excessively play anymore. this is my opinion.
Okay, let me laugh back at you then.
https://check-pvp.fr/eu/Ravencrest/Blizo
So Blizo, the current R1 warrior, is sitting on 3k rating in 3v3 and 2.4k in 2v2.
268 games played in total for 3v3
126 games played in total for 2v2
Then you take somebody like me, who has 667 games played in total, and peaked at 2220 rating this season.
The best way to crank down the amount of time required to get high rating is your skill. Even for the PvE grind.
Which is a problem in BFAâs design, not the rating system in itself. Nothing has changed in the arena rating design since 2007, except we got fixed brackets now.
I agree, but thatâs a seperate issue in the form of class design and the impact of gear currently.
But despite this, somehow itâs still the same people that achieves R1 every season. Itâs still Blizo whoâs the best warrior, Raiku is still the best mage and Wallarikz still takes lock to the top, regardless of what state the specs are in.
Iâm confident when I say, if youâre good enough you can achieve the rating you want, no matter the circumstances. Youâll also achieve it a lot faster if you can increase your win rate.
We do not talk about BFA season 4 ever again. We all agree itâs a catastrophy.
blizo probably has 1k+ games on smurf accounts and wargaming on TR
That doesnât really change that his main achieved 3k in 268 games total.
Blah-Blah. How about this challenging PvE set from earlier expansions that arent obtainable anymore? The one that quite a few palas tend to wear. Never done it so I dont know the exact name but Im sure you know what Im talking about.
Its the same here: was looking good but not obtainable anymore. I havent done it back then? I dont deserve it!
Not correct from my experience! You obviously had an advantage if you played a lot, like you have everywhere else as well. You think you get good in any sport just by talent? Of course not! But it wasnt as time expensive if you think it was. You may needed a lot more time for the very top of the ladder but elite sets and lower glads were 100% able to achieve with a job, friends and girlfriend!
And now add the time to it he needed, to achieve 12/12 mythic + 2nd best pvp corruption (30% TD). So one of the best warriors this game ever had was able to achieve 3k with good gear, top teammates and a class/comp thats probably also very strong. Not to mention that he also has played 2k games on his monks this season. Both classes are comparable in terms of how to play in arena. Its more interesting that some warriors still say that warrior isnt like really good! 
So whats your point? You dont take the time into consideration he needed to get the PvE gear to be viable in PvP. And also dont forget that he and his team has a very high mmr so hes getting there a lot faster than someone that had to start from like 1.5 mmr. But ya, there is a reason why they won every single method tournament!
Indeed, but in WoD for example or Wrath, you werent able to achieve anything in arena just with PvE gear. You dont need a single item from PvP to get to the top of the ladder right now. In Legion it was the same but therefor you didnt had an advantage at all with your gear.
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Arena is a bit tricky though as well, because thereâs this thing called MMR.
So if you did really well in the last Season, then the game will try to place you at the top of the ladder early in the new Season.
In the early Arena Seasons, Blizzard always reset the MMR so players would start on an equal footing and face the same climb to the top.
There were someâŚissues with that, so they stopped reseting the MMR in MoP.
So these days, the game kind of arranges the ladder of the Season before the Season has begun. So for some players their rewards are guaranteed before theyâve even played their first game of the Season.
All those overpowered Demon Hunters that run around today, the game will practically carry them to Gladiator in the first Season of Shadowlands, because of their MMR. Doesnât really matter what class changes are made, theyâll have the rating to tank through the losses.
MMR is a great tool in terms of matchmaking, but itâs not good for the competitive part of WoW that has to do with time and effort. Some players get to skip that because of their MMR, others donât.
Thatâs what everyone who has achieved something through skill or effort feels. Itâs where the issue comes in, when somebody else is allowed the opportunity to achieve that same reward through less requirements, a lot of people will throw that hissy fit. Because they donât find it justified somebody else can achieve what they did, but with less effort.
Thatâs why
is not the context. People donât necessarily care what their own personal achievements mean to others, but they DO have an opinion on others being able to achieve that same reward through easier means. Not to say everybody does, but the majority do at least.
You lurk this forum as well, you for sure must have seen the amount of DH complaint threads, or the amount of times people have said 1.8k for elite set is too low and nothing special now.
Itâs not about the value of others opinion regarding your reward, itâs about your accomplishment of your reward in the eyes of others.
Classic example;
Player 1, an enhancement shaman: âI got 2.4k guys!â
People applaud the guy for his achievement
Player 2, a havoc demon hunter: âI got 2.4k guys!â
People mock the guy for thinking heâs special and have accomplished anything real
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This topic has been discussed to death multiple times.
Let some things have little prestige in mmorpg that already has very little prestige left. People have hundreds upon hundreds of sets to collect, why does few unobtainable RECOLORS matter that much?
Also the only reason you want them is because they are âeliteâ. The moment you can buy them from vendor for 12 badges of honor they become just another recolor that you donât even want or care.
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I honestly think thereâs a difference between the rating accomplishment and the reward (Elite set or mount or whatever).
Players will compare ratings and criticize and complain about balance and what not.
And thatâs understandable, because the competition isnât fair or balanced and the difficulty of climbing up the ladder can vary greatly depending on what you play and who you are.
But, I think once players obtain a reward, they apply their own meaning to that reward and are as proud of it as they are proud of their own accomplishment of getting it.
I donât think players diminish or exaggerate the value of their own rewards depending on how others perceive them.
I think weâre all very driven by our own personal play experiences and the emotions we apply to them.
Luckily, the design of mmr, or the elo system, is made so your mmr reflects your chance of winning against an opposite team.
Should your mmr get reset, youâre fighting players much worse than you, and youâll have no problem restoring your old mmr. If youâre fighting people with your own mmr at the start of a season, then itâs essentially just continuing from where you left off. Some people would lose.
I cannot confirm it, but Iâve heard that inbetween expansions your mmr makes a soft or hard reset.
However,
if this really is the case, letâs just say that demon hunter is a terrible spec in shadowlands for the sake of it. Your mmr will not save you in that case, itâll give you a headstart, but eventually youâll lose to actual good specs on equal skill level that season. Your gladiator is not guaranteed this way, unless youâre a legit R1 player.
Also, Iâm not entirely sure if itâs true that mmr doesnât get reset. At the end of a season, I usually sit on 2.4k mmr, but at the start of the next one I can be anywhere from 1.8k-2k mmr match to match.
Well, let me ask you this question then.
What would give you the greater sense of accomplishment:
- Getting 1.8k/2k/2.2k rating or whatever is required for an elite set
or
- Purchasing the set with 12 marks of honor
I think people get a diminished feeling if they themselves get the feeling they didnât earn it fair and square.
Do you get the same feeling for getting your first gladiator through trial and error as when you buy a boost and get it?
Would you feel as great of your achievement if you knew everybody else disagreed with it?
Competitive people hold the feeling of accomplishment dearest to themselves, but they also get the awesome feeling of being able to say âI did itâ and be proud.
Likewise, if you have something youâre proud of having achieved yourself, and suddenly, that reward is being distributed to everyone itâs not special anymore, itâs common.
Itâs like my boi Syndrome used to say
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Iâm currently watching The Last Dance documentary, and Phil Jackson has a wonderful quote that applies more to WoW I think:
âYouâre only a success for the moment you complete a successful act.â
I think with PvP thereâs a tendency to want these exclusive rewards to remain, because some players want to rest on their laurels.
They might have succeeded in the past and acquired the Elite PvP set or Gladiator mount, and now they basically just want to preserve the fame and success associated with their old accomplishment. And exclusivity helps toward that end.
But in WoW, success is assigned to the players who accomplish great things again and again and keep at it. That is the competitive drive in WoW and MMORPGs; the urge to be ahead.
Because MMORPGs constantly evolve, the accomplishment lies in dominating the top for a period of time â not a moment of time.
It doesnât matter if some random dude gets some old Elite PvP set from past expansions.
We donât hold that in high regard.
We hold a guy like Blizo in high regard because he sits at the top of the ladder constantly, every Season, on multiple characters. Other players wearing some of his old Elite PvP set transmogrifications wouldnât take anything away from his skill and accomplishment, because he constantly succeeds at the game.
Then you are naive as usual!
Better than being insecure.
If I think people dont deserve old elite sets because they havent got them at the time, Im insecure?
Well, then you are dumb af if you think they do! 
Your opinion
Your opinion again.
All of your arguments are totally biased and you know better than anyone else, that your opinion and the general opinion in this forum basically never go hand in hand!
Of course not, but its not a question if it would take away anything, the only question is: Do they deserve it? And no, they dont!
No. Iâm saying that the effort you associate with your accomplishment isnât diminished because of what others think.
The often-voiced example on this forum goes something like this:
âGladiator is so faceroll. Everyone can get it these days.â
But for some players it might be their greatest accomplishment in the game and the hardest thing theyâve ever done. And they have every right to be proud of that, no matter how many Demon Hunters cruise to Gladiator or how many nay-sayers there are on the forum.
What you feel about your own in-game accomplishments is what matters. What other people think about your accomplishments doesnât matter at all. Screw 'em. If theyâre wearing the same transmogrification or flying on the same mount, your feeling of pride in your own accomplishment shouldnât be diminished because of that. That would be insecurity.
And thats the point you dont get.
Letâs say this year would be the Olympics. Now there would be some discipline where the field of participants is not very strong (compared to the Olympics before) and someone gets a medal.
Now he claims to get a medal from previous Olympiads because of this performance. Do you really think that wouldnât matter to the medal winners of previous Olympiads? Wouldnât it greatly reduce the value of their medal?
Of course it would. Both for the person themselves and in general! Only a fool would say otherwise!!
So even if it doesnt match 100%, its still a very easy to understand argument that fits!
Edit: I can understand that it must be hard to understand, since you never decided to be part of the competitive mode in this game, but your opinion shows directly why.
For the medal winner it may doesnt matter if people think he only won it because the field of participants wasnt that strong in that year (it probably would tho!!!), but he has no right at all about previous Olympiads!
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But Elemaltesten, if we had a design where you got an Armor Token when you reached 1800 or 2000 or 2200 rating in a Season, which you could exchange for any Elite PvP set appearance of your choice, then other players wouldnât be confused about what that would symbolize.
Itâs not like players would go:
âWell that guy just exchanged his Armor Token for the Cataclysm Season 12 appearance, so I guess heâs as good as anyone who earned the set back then!â
Everyone would naturally go:
âHuh, that guy is wearing an Elite PvP set, so I guess he earned a high Arena rating at some point in time.â
Which is what everyone already does today!
No one sits and keeps track of what sets applies to which Season, and when specs were overpowered and underpowered, and whoâs rating is a greater accomplishment in a Season than someone elseâs rating in a different Season.
No.
You get high rating, you get fancy PvP sweater. People sometimes recognize fancy PvP sweater, and sometimes they donât. No oneâs keeping track of hundreds of different colored sweaters distributed over 13 years as they jump around in Stormwind or Orgrimmar.
Again, the only person who really cares about which fancy PvP sweater heâs wearing, is the PvPer who got that sweater.
So as long as that PvPer is proud of his own accomplishment, then thatâs all that matters.
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If he is interested in the set, he does. Maybe you lack on experience here again but do you know how often I got whispered about my mount, my mog or my weapon enchants (illusions) in the past 10 years?
The gladiator mount in wrath for example was one of the most popular mount and people were really jealous, until the day you got the same mount for killing the lich king. It totally lost its value!
Or the red, blue and green weapon enchants you got from 2.4+ in previous expansions. You know how many people recognize them no matter what rating? Dont you think I had situations in voice with randoms from tool I played with somewhen later and they told me that they also always wanted to have the enchantment but couldnt get it back in the days?
Again: You lack on competitive experience to understand it, I guess, but those things have a value! If they wouldnt we actually wouldnt need any seasons anymore. Just keep arena running for ever and just handle out R1 every 3 month or something.
What a stupid idea if I may say so!
No, I do not.
The one thing Iâm most proud of in this game, is the Winterspring Frostsaber mount I acquired in Vanilla WoW.
It was a grueling grind. It took 840 repeatable quests. Each one took 20 minutes. On a PvP server. In a highly contested area.
By the end of Vanilla we were 4 Alliance players who had managed to get that mount on my server. And that number didnât change notably for a long time.
I got constant whispers about it, the jealousy was sometimes through the roof. Remember, early in Vanilla WoW there really wasnât any other mounts than the ones from the vendor. So if you had something few others had, you were special.
I think in Cataclysm Blizzard changed the way you earned the reputation to buy the mount so it got a lot easier to get â and a lot more people got it. And I was happy for them. More people being able to get what they want and being happy when they get it? Awesome!
And in Legion, I believe it was, Blizzard changed it completely so it became a simple quest line that was easy to complete. And today everyone can get the Winterspring Frostsaber mount without any hassle, if they want it.
And I am okay with that. I had the opportunity to get it under tough and challenging circumstances, and I cherish it because of that.
If others are happy for their Winterspring Frostsaber mount for other reasons or circumstances, then great! It doesnât take anything away from what I feel about my own accomplishment.
We may disagree on this, but donât insinuate that I donât understand or canât relate.
We just differ.
I did the Honor grind in Vanilla and got the Marshall set. I donât mind that people can get that today. I think thatâs great.
I did Naxxramas and got tier 3 in Vanilla. I donât mind that people can buy that from the BMAH today.
You want the same Field Marshall title that I earned 15 years ago? You can get it today, and Iâm okay with that.
And if it were up to me, every Priest who wants the Benediction staff should be able to get it. I donât need that prestige hoarded for myself. The memory of acquiring it myself back in the day is sufficient.
As a point of principle I fall into the category of thinking that everything Blizzard puts into the game should stay in the game, available for everyone to experience and acquire, be it items, content, or otherwise.
You may disagree, but donât say that I donât understand or canât relate.