Have you ever paid attention to how trolls were handled? Night elves aren't in half as !@#$ty situation.
Blizzard figured out how to raid the future allied race capital so Horde could participate too.
Another loss of iconic leader.
Yeah, trolls are another example, and again more of what makes me think can't they find a better way of brinign more lore and handling the gameplay demands better?
I mean, like the tyrande absence from 7.2 could have been filled in with a book or short story, or better woven into the quests alongside the legion and class halls - Thalyssra could have been written not to join the horde and stay neutral with the majority of the nightborne while a small group joined the horde, just like a small group of blood elves joined teh alliance
making effort like that would have been much better. I can only give night elf examples, but i'm sure you can give us lots of troll ones.
Trolls didn't receive any facepaint of tusk ornament for Vol'Jin's death. No, were left to be irrevelant for the rest of expansion
Oh yeah, the darkspear treatment with the zandalari on board is a bit reminscent of the darnassian treatment in legion with the shal'dorei and other night elven groups around.
Although i see Rokhan and couple of darkspears play a more prominent role, it isn't enough though, i also like how one of the warfront passes has the darkspears leading the horde offensive.
I'm surprised not to see a forsaken version on the warfront - unless the first one was, cos I think i missed the first one.
OK. I'm going to take the bait, as it were.
You are posting from a character known to have started a variety of threads about how hard done by the Kaldorei are, you claim to care about lore, however you consistently post on characters who are not on RP Realms, and this one even has the Guild name "Noobs with Epics"
I'm just going to ask you this. If you do not care about RP, and do not therefore indulge in the story of the game, its background and the why's and wherefores' of what happens, then -WHY- does this matter to you?
If you -cared- about those aspects of the game, you would play them. By not doing so, you are part of the problem, not the solution. If Blizzard thinks no one cares about lore, then we'll just end up with damned pixels mashing at each other with numbers over their heads. That's not what I want. I care about the lore, I care about the RP aspects of...gosh, an mmoRPg.
If you really cared, then...why are you doing nothing about it, or is it easier to complain?
All you do is complain.
Be the change you want to see, or else, get off the pot and go. Either is good.
I do care, i don't have to be on an RP realm, to actually care a lot about the story, i've not found an RP community i have felt I could indulge and be a part off.
I have had characters on Argent Dawn and Defias Brotherhood before, so I have tried, it always returned to non-rping within the micro community of the guild.
BUt what makes you think that i need to RP to care about the story?
And actually my posts can be quite positive, you should have seen me writing during legion. However some of my more negative posts are because i have been so angry about this.. it really got to me.
however, despite that, i have posted far more positive threads on my other toons as well. Especailly threads that try to bring out the richness and depth of the lore tha ti enjoy , in an attempt to share it with others and stimulate their interest.
And not just threads about night elves, about loadsa other things, i tend to reserve my night elf toons for night elf threads, but as there prospects have been depressing and dark for most of wow, and i've been around for all of it, and been patient for so long of it, i guess 14 years on seeing even worse treatment sort of served like a final straw.
there are other Alliance races who have suffered just as much as the Night Elves because of Azshara. Such as the Kul Tiran Humans, whose legendary fleet was cursed and imprisoned for weeks by Azshara and her dark servants, and Fort Daelin was invaded by the Naga. Without even taking the "dark secret" beneath the Stormsong Valley into account, which will become a raid tied to Azshara.
And knowing Blizzard, that is the only reason why they included it.
In general, lore/in-game events never have anything to do with whether Humans ''deserve'' something or not, Blizzard's devs have always and always will be feeding their alter ego the titbits.
If you -cared- about those aspects of the game, you would play them.
Not necessarily. Time factor is crucial here.
Even, if someone is levelling on a RP realm, his job responsibilities might make it nearly impossible for him to engage in any meaningful (and consistent) RP of his chosen character. Yet, despite his lack of time, he can be very interested in lore and follow discussions on the forums. No?
11/11/2018 11:47Posted by
Leafie And knowing Blizzard, that is the only reason why they included it.
In general, lore/in-game events never have anything to do with whether Humans ''deserve'' something or not, Blizzard's devs have always and always will be feeding their alter ego the titbits.
Leafie, this resonates with me so much.. I get such a strong feeling of this too often.
And it is really bad for the game and fans, because every time they do stuff, introduce new races, there are peole that fallin love with taht stuff, just because they move on to new pet races/classes or characters, doesn't mean they should just forget about the consistency of the story they are writing.
Many fans will be left behind, feel mistreated, or feel they just don't care if they don't main that consistency. If you're writing Azshara and the legion as the night elves' main enemies, or the arcane, nature and elune as their main things - don't just ditch them to replace them by a pet favourite or leave htem out of the action.. don't just nerf them or turn them into damsels in distress looking aweful just so you can show off your new pet (Varian) or how powerful your new pets (insert race, but mostly orcs) are etc.
If you can't manage that, then at least hire or find some people that are passionate about each of these aspects to play a role. Even elect members of the community that a really passionate about each of the races, to provide their input on new developments, and listen and incorporate the good feedback they give.
Not only will it excite them, but they'll help plug some glaring gaps and they will excite the community with their enthusiasm.
the decision is yours.
I'm sure one of the other few hundred Night elf fans will take your place.
OK, I was perhaps a little harsh last night, its been a stressful week, and I may have imbibed a few too many gins, however...
The Lore developers do not specifically -hate- the Night Elves. The Night Elves are just going through a really dark time right now.
I mean consider the core races on both sides,
Humans: Their city sacked, had to rebuild, this happened before WoW, but still happened.
Dwarves: They're actually OK, they had a Civil War, but they seem to be over that.
Gnomes: They got -utterly- smashed with the desolation stick. Their backstory is just -horrific-, and their lore (What little they get) is them picking themselves back up from the floor, spitting out blood and going 'Right then'
I'll come back to Night Elves, as this is a specific point I want to make.
Draenei: a whole History of Exodus, forced flights from planet to planet, nowhere to call their home, not until finally, finally, after 25,000 years or so, there is surcease, there is respite. Their history is one of suffering.
Worgen: Their isolationist nation utterly falling to a widespread curse, then being invaded by the Forsaken, then being Blighted and made uninhabitable. They get smashed with the desolation stick also.
Then.
Orcs: They were (undeniably) the aggressors in the first Wars, however the current generation of Orcs who are the main body of the adult population were not those ones. They grew up in the Internment Camps, they grew up knowing their fathers and mothers were Slaves, They found a saviour, and he abandoned them, so they turned to another, and he proved to be just as bad as the original ones. They're a pretty broken people.
Trolls: They lost their lands, they lost their leader, their own Species would quite happily eat them. They have to live in someone elses city, only now retaking their home. Like the Gnomes, theirs is a story of horror, which only now are they starting to come back from.
Tauren: Similar to Draenei, the forced Tauren migration, due to the depradations of Centaur and Quillboar is reminiscent of the 'Trail of Tears' in our own world, and that was a horrific thing, they too, are starting to build back up.
The Forsaken: Their lives are just horror, full stop. I mean they don't help themselves, but their story is just one of horror.
The Blood Elves: Like the Gnomes, they got a -massive- smash from the desolation baseball bat, and were kicked down into the mud. Their story is them picking themselves up again.
The Goblins: Their Entire country was destroyed. They are Exiles without a hope of ever going home. Sure, they're venal, mercenary, not nice folks, but they are not going to get a 'Happy ever after' out of this.
So Night Elves then. I mean at the time of the Sundering, things were grim. Since then, they were doing alright. Until the Orcs came along. Initially things were bad, but they endured, and after the Siege of Orgrimmar, forced the Horde into a humiliating climbdown.
Currently, a combined Horde army attacked a fraction of their forces, and to no ones surprise, made great advances. They then destroyed their city. The Night Elves, far from being beaten by this, instead go -back- to their original roots, and become the savage and terrifying things of the woods, to be feared, never seen, perhaps, but deadly.
Their story right now is loss, loss and anger. That's their story. Many other races got hit with that stick, some before they even got to see it in game. What makes the Night Elf fanbase so special that they alone should be exempt from this? Do you hear Blood elf fans complaining that to get their Heritage Armour they have to relive a flashback of essentially the same thing happening? The desolation of their lands, a defeat, a loss, even worse, the loss of their ruler?
No. So what makes the Night Elf fanbase so special? Why should they alone be sacrosanct from their favourite race having suffered?
Don't you see? This is Night Elf fans actually being able to play -out- the whole scenario, that to Gnomes, Trolls, Blood Elves etc etc was just handed over "Here, that's what you get".
I can't understand it. There is literally not a better time to be playing Night Elf, than right now. Story is being flung at you left right and centre. Sure, its sometimes bad things happening, but what kind of story goes "X went for a walk in the meadow, everything was perfect, the sun was shining, and nothing bad happened to them, they went home and had a lovely dinner"
This is the Night Elves 'Dunkirk', this is the start of 'Operation Barbarossa', this is the Dark before the Dawn.
This is -awesome- story. I wish, I really do, that we could see an Alliance invasion of Quel'thalas. That would be amazing games.
Sometimes you have to sit back and think; "Is it the Lore I don't like, or is it the fact that my favourite race is getting beasted."
Don't even start on the Nightborne, people have already been told enough times why that makes sense :P
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The ''problem'' with these types of threads is probably that the affinity for the fantasy race chosen is subjective. Thus, the pros and cons trigger more or less emotional responses. In other words: all perspectives are right.
But, from a management perspective, i.e. the company who sells the product, it would be wise to listen to the pros and cons of their customers.
What is a fact, though, is that WoW is heavily ''human''-centered. Other races' lore tend to be sluggish, contradictory and inconsitent. This is a shame. The problem could be circumnavigated by having Blizzard's lore team divided into racial sub-teams (permanent writers, not temps or interns). That way consistency, at least, could be more easily put across, imo.
Do tell me about this "Human-centered world", when Humans in Legion hardly did anything at all after the Broken Shore, except for Anduin's small questline and Turalyon's secondary role in Patch 7.3.
Legion was a Night Elf-Draenei expansion, It baffles me that a (tiny) minority is convinced that Humans are always in the spotlight. If anything, they have been ignored for far too long after Warlords of Draenor and Legion barely saw any Human presence at all.
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11/11/2018 17:57Posted by
Arctur Do tell me about this "Human-centered world", when Humans in Legion hardly did anything at all after the Broken Shore, except for Anduin's small questline and Turalyon's secondary role in Patch 7.3.
Legion was a Night Elf-Draenei expansion, It baffles me that a (tiny) minority is convinced that Humans are always in the spotlight. If anything, they have been ignored for far too long after Warlords of Draenor and Legion barely saw any Human presence at all.
I hate to say it, but the madman is correct.
Humans were pretty downplayed after WoD and has made a minor return in BFA.
with Kul'tirans.
also Night elf fans be crazy.
always craving more like it is some sort of addiction.
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Before Battle for Azeroth, 0 expansion zones were centered around Humans. However, 3 Legion zones were centered around Elves, and 2 Warlords of Draenor zones were centered around Draenei.
You're pathetic, Human haters.
11/11/2018 18:29Posted by
Arctur Before Battle for Azeroth, 0 expansion zones were centered around Humans. However, 3 Legion zones were centered around Elves, and 2 Warlords of Draenor zones were centered around Draenei.
You're pathetic, Human haters.
But Garithos tried to murder my people.
Twice!
I think my hate is justified.
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11/11/2018 18:44Posted by
Durlan But Garithos tried to murder my people.
Twice!
I think my hate is justified.
Still doesn't change the fact that you are a bunch of traitors, /spit.
11/11/2018 18:44Posted by
Durlan But Garithos tried to murder my people.
Twice!
I think my hate is justified.
The only wrong thing is that he failed.
11/11/2018 18:44Posted by
Durlan But Garithos tried to murder my people.
Twice!
I think my hate is justified.
Still doesn't change the fact that you are a bunch of traitors, /spit.
Says the Voidelf.
You betrayed your Kingdom.
11/11/2018 18:44Posted by
Durlan But Garithos tried to murder my people.
Twice!
I think my hate is justified.
The only wrong thing is that he failed.
I'll have you know that the church of Greymane's got my back!
11/11/2018 18:54Posted by
Durlan <span class="truncated">...</span>
Still doesn't change the fact that you are a bunch of traitors, /spit.
Says the Voidelf.
You betrayed your Kingdom.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
The only wrong thing is that he failed.
I'll have you know that the church of Greymane's got my back!
We do. The pack looks after its own.
We also bite.
Just wait for Araphant to comment here.
Says the Voidelf.
You betrayed your Kingdom.
Puahahaha, betrayed? Last time I checked you betrayed us. And you betray the faction that has saved your multiply times so you can have a nice skip with Sylvanas down genocide road.
You mana addicted crack-headed thugs make me sick.
Says the Voidelf.
You betrayed your Kingdom.
Puahahaha, betrayed? Last time I checked you betrayed us. And you betray the faction that has saved your multiply times so you can have a nice skip with Sylvanas down genocide road.
You mana addicted crack-headed thugs make me sick.
Where was the Alliance, when Quel'thalas fell?
Where was the Alliance when the Sin'dorei tried to rebuild their kingdom?
Oh right they send invasion forces into the heart of our land.
Also you suckle on the void, are you really one to judge?
We do. The pack looks after its own.
We also bite.
Hail Greymane!
Where was the Alliance, when Quel'thalas fell?
In ruins, funnily enough Arthas was destroying the kingdom of Lordaeron incase you didn't know xd.
Where was the Alliance when the Sin'dorei tried to rebuild their kingdom?
Oh right they send invasion forces into the heart of our land.
Can't really explain this away, it makes no sense but w/e. Also it wasn't a invasion force.
Also you suckle on the void, are you really one to judge?
Yes, I use my powers for the betterment of the world, you use it because you are a crack-head who let his addition get the better of him rather than moving on from such degeneracy. Actually I guess you are good for the Horde considering how backward you thugs are.
The Lore developers do not specifically -hate- the Night Elves. The Night Elves are just going through a really dark time right now.
I agree, they don't - but they are guilty of neglecting them big time, and running them agian into the ground - what's the point of doing this repeatedly? it's not great at all, and when does it stop? If the "payback" for all the tragedy they've written is just messsing up th e horde in darkshore and they go right ahead to cut them out of Azshara, ignore some form of recovery like giving them new homes in night elf designed lands or letting them actually reclaim their home they've lost - not to mention all the other stuff they've lost - then it's rather weak.
So Night Elves then. I mean at the time of the Sundering, things were grim. Since then, they were doing alright.
Ah but were they? They weren't dying and suffering - but they were frozen on high alert, refusing to use their arcane power to rebuild because it would draw the legion, refusing to rebuild their civilization, as that needed both arcane and nature to be wielded and that would draw the legion.
Their men were sleeping for thousands of years at a time, hardly the atmosphere for building families, opening trade and life back to normal - life changed - they stopped living for themselves for 10k years, now that is an enormous sacrifice - and what do they get for that at the end? Losing they nature boon to add to the arcane restriction they had to live with.
And what does blizzard do? i don't see blizzard restoring the use of the arcane well either to power them up after the WC3 nature depletion. This makes partial sense because the ban isn't lifted till cataclysm and concerning the legion, the danger is no longer preventing them from coming back but now being strong enough to deal with them and at that point they have no idea the Legion is not really after the arcane power, but the world soul, the well being a means of entry - so it is barely understandable that the Well could still be a no go for utilisation but at this point you would wanna use all your power now to get ready for worse to come, unless there is still some lingering hesitation and fear - however, i suspect its lack of inclusion is more neglect than any of those reasons - night elves aren't focused on in cataclysm, they get the same redo everyone does, and though we do visit hyjal there, it's all about Thrall and becoming aspect of earth, i wonder if they even realized they could have put the Well of Eternity into play then - probably completley forgot, so focused on other things than night elves.
however what's the excuse now? Legion is defeated, it's true purposes were unmasked, addiction is also cured and understood to require balance and humility to avoid hubris - something a fall from grace teaches quite well (which incidentally darnassians experienced after the first sundering, but the others avoided, however not long before the shen'dralar experience that when they have to flee dire maul and wean themselves off Immol'tha's corruption, and the nightborne experience that in legion when they have to endure the humiliation of withering. the result of such unbalanced use of the arcane.
Shaladrassil is now free, the nightmare contained, the power of druidsm can now be utilsied, with the arcane available, why hasn't it been used to speed up recovery and augment the tree? And new links formed?
Elune too? Okay, now we see Elune do something, the night warrior is an interseting boost - but what does it all mean? Is it a token gesture for 1 patch? or are we going to see more involvement in Azshara - more recovery like world tree, well of power, immortality and a new home. Remember all the things that were magical about them have been stripped from them, they are at their lowest point since just after the sundering - but incidentally have over 10k years of arcane, nature and Elune knowledge in their company via the shen'dralar/moonguard/illidari, the druids and the order of Elune, and still have a World Tree and Well of Power around.
Not to mention Azshara and N'zoth are still around - is the reason they are not using the Well of Eternity and healing Shaladrassil yet is because N'zoth is still around, and as long as he is, even with the nightmare destroyed, it can find willing pawns - that explains the world tree, but what about the well? Is Azshara the hinderance there? If they employ, now the legion is gone are they waiting for her to be offed before reclaiming that power?
I wonder.
11/11/2018 17:12Posted by
Leafie What is a fact, though, is that WoW is heavily ''human''-centered. Other races' lore tend to be sluggish, contradictory and inconsitent. This is a shame. The problem could be circumnavigated by having Blizzard's lore team divided into racial sub-teams (permanent writers, not temps or interns). That way consistency, at least, could be more easily put across, imo.
indeed, and also perhaps consult some of the avid fans of the races involved, because while they may miss a detail, or misguage what is the expectation of a group, fans who only focus on one race, or one world (like the night elf world, or the pandaren world or the human/undead world, or the draenor (orc/draenei) world ) would definitely spot these things.
They'll ask the what could be some pointing questions - why is x not here, or y is so lame? why are they not using their ship or their well, shouldn't z be better suited for this? Etc.. when they aren't that interested in a group or individual, you see it clearly, they get sloppy. and fans always catch em out on that.
Why not use the fans to make it a quality lore experience, they may even find some pretty interesting solutions that could spawn a whole lot of other interesting things. They actually have a following large enough for this, use it.