Can someone please explain to me why they have been designing this game mode to be as disgusting and as toxic as possible ever since it was added to the game?
The entire thing is a negative reinforcement loop that is massively more punishing than it is rewarding. Not being oppressive is far more important than being rewarding, it’s basic human psychology that we place much higher importance on negative experiences than positive ones. Nearly everything about M+ is designed to make you feel miserable if something goes wrong, while the reward is barely (maybe) having another pull at the slot machine casino once a week (best gearing system we’ve ever had amirite guys?).
You get people who seemingly fit the criteria for the dungeon and ilvl but are actually boosted and utterly incompetent on every level. You get bombarded with garbage on the ground, including the lovely affixes, every 0.5 seconds, and Blizzard’s fantastic visual design language ensures that you’re never gonna know exactly where the edges of those 20 swirlies around you are.
You die on a bloated damage sponge tyrannical boss that lasts as long as a raid boss, and then you’re running back for 2 minutes which feels like dragging your bare feet through a desert.
This isn’t even down to incompetence, their literal philosophy is to not provide competent shortcuts and checkpoints to “make dungeons feel like real places”. We’re running an endlessly repeating and scalable game mode where mechanics and health bars scale far beyond the point where they were actually fun to play around, only to fill a casino loot box in our main hub, NOTHING about M+ dungeons feels immersive in the slightest. Design normal shortcuts and checkpoints because wasting time running back feels disgusting in a timed zoomer game mode.
“Winning” the dungeon in time gets you a few crests, either no gear or gear that’s of pathetic ilvl at base, and a roll at the weekly casino. “Losing” the dungeon can range from failing the timer and losing a key level even though you finished the dungeon, and giving up due to headache-inducing frustration as a result of any/all of the factors I already mentioned, and then you get absolutely nothing and are punished with a reduced key level of the SAME horrible dungeon. Do you know how this feels Blizzard? Feels disgusting.
All of this compounds and makes the pug experience atrocious every single tier, made much worse in DF now that we need to run up to +20 to get max ilvl loot. I don’t care how amazingly fantastic it is with an extended family and a guild, I’m asking why does this game mode have to be toxic by design, knowing full well that it’s gonna be made infinitely worse in pugs.
As I said, I don’t care how it is with friends, family, and loved ones. Many people, most likely the majority, can’t always play with friends, and the entire original point of M+ as a mode was to be more accessible than raiding and not require a premade group.
It also doesn’t discredit anything that I actually wrote, you’re just saying that you don’t care because it’s fun with friends (like everything is).
Doesn’t matter and you know it. If the rewards were scaling to +15 like in prior expansions and we also had the upgrade system, you would’ve been geared up much faster than going up 5 more tiers of difficulties.
Yes when I’m interacting with content that’s not designed to be enjoyable, as evident by all the design decisions I listed.
Yes it is because it exacerbates the problems in the system and scaling, you have to spend more time and do harder content to reach the same rewards you could have had in the last 3 expansions.
Of course, you can still prefer it, though I doubt most people like having to go to 20 to get what 15 was getting them last year.
Because its a competitive game mode with ranking and everyone wants to climb high. Its rarelly toxic as you describe unless you play keys with people that don’t belong in that level range.
It’s what they say at gyms: train your muscles, not your ego. Its fine if someone is not capable of doing 16s, just stick to 14s practise, practise, practise and more practise till they get better.
As long as everyone in a key belong to that level and are not carried as you describe its not toxic.
To sum up: mythic plus is best thing ever to this game for people that like endgame content.
You need 8 x 16s to get max ilvl loot, starting tomorrow and retroactive for all loot you got out of vault all season long.
You are NOT SUPPOSED to get MAX ilvl loot if you are not able to push high keys. Weekly vault is not “free loot” to compensate in order to outgear content as bad player, however its easier to get ilvl than raid, because in order to get 447 WEEKY RANDOM loot from vault you need to reach upper mythic raid.
ps. There are weeks we are 18 or 19 people for mythic raid and we end up logout. With mythic plus any F time you want you can login, even at 3 am if you cant sleep or got day off next day and play 1-4 keys till 6 am.
I can easily do 15 + keys on my DH with 419 ilvl full pvp, playing along with “people who seemingly fit the criteria for the dungeon and ilvl but are actually boosted and utterly incompetent on every level”.
But when you can’t achieve what others do, the content is garbage designed and too punishing.
If anything, I feel like a 419 ilvl full pvp characters shouldn’t be able to complete 15-16 + keys, but the system is maybe designed for casuals.
What problems? The entire point is to have fun in the game mode.
If you play a game mode hating every second of it just to get gear then it does not matter. Why 15? Give me mythic gear at +5 cause i wanna spend 0 time there.
Depends, I guess. I mean 419 isn’t particularly low. Others on my mythic raid team and myself were slogging our way through +20s at the beginning of the season at not much higher ilvl. And while you’ll be doing a bit less damage in pvp gear than you would with the best gear for the content, that’s balanced by the high versa making it much easier to stay alive.
DF is a living proof that all what twitch streamers and youtubers have been whining about for years have nothing to do with real reasons why majority of wow players stopped playing wow.
the direction in which they designed game for years now have been wrong.
tuning content harder and harder was a mistake and people who supported it in blizz should be fired
the push into e-sports was a mistake and people responsible for it in blizz should be fired.
as this season proves removal of VP years ago and then limiting it artificialy was a mistake and people reponsible for it should be fired.
untill we see real action from blizz and getting rid of people who only design game around toxic mythic tryhards game will continiue to fail .
It is because you 100% play in pug enviroment…
Lot of people don’t understand that m+ was not designed for PUGS
M+ changes from toxic to Fun experience the moment you find some friends
i can tell you about it because i’ve been on both sides.
I’m arguing the same point, Blizzard are the ones who refuse to put in normal checkpoints in M+ to keep them “immersive”, which is either insanely delusional on their end or massively dishonest.
You’re right but it’s an indictment of the game not an excuse. It’s by far the most punishing avenue of WoW at least in PvE, I’ve no idea how PvP is structured.
Funny thing is that many of those content creators and streamers have stopped playing too, even though they still praise how good the game is now that they don’t have to play it. They all play in their isolated bubbles that are either top 1% or casual depending on the creator, and don’t have any clue about an average user’s experience.
The only one who tried to understand what the game is like for somewhat normal people was Preach back in Legion when he was doing the new account challenge, but this also wasn’t entirely reliable as he was still a mythic raider who played the game all day for years and the experience itself is worth a lot.
Game is just too difficult at the higher end and has been for years, and the more difficult the game and more punishing the systems, the worse an experience the average player has.
I know and I don’t care, design it for pugs or at least design it so that it’s not horrendously toxic in a pug environment. They are never gonna get most players to be in a happy happy cat guild environment where everyone has their own idyllic clique and every M+ run is sunshine and rainbows.
Many people can’t find a guild they like, have awful schedules to play around, or just don’t want to confine themselves to a guild. We already have mythic raiding for guild-only players, there is no reason to have M+ be as punishing as it is on so many different levels when knowing how harmful it is to the way most people interact with the game, via pugs.
