Let’s address the elephant in the room. Mastery for frost mage is by far the most deplorable garbage of a stat currently in the game. It essentially renders all gear that have it useless for frost mage players. It’s basically a nerf you can equip by yourself. You’d be better off having 1/4 of any other secondary stat, really. According to raidbots, going from 220 crit/haste item to 252 mastery/whatever is actually a downgrade most of the times, even in AoE cleave situations, which is what i’s supposed to be good for. That’s ridiculous. Either make it useful or remove it from loot tables for frost mage ffs.
It sims 2nd behind vers for me on eight targets. Are you running the frozen orb conduit as your 3rd conduit?
That somehow makes it even worse. What about people who… happen to be in any other combat situation a WoW player can possibly be in except killing precisely 8 stationary targets at the same time? It’s almost laughable how bad the stat is. It totally would be laughable, if it wasn’t actually a thing. Stat that benefits ONE spell in ONE very specific situation. You can’t make that up, that’s some next level game design. I do run that conduit, but only because there’s nothing else to put in there.
It does’t just effect one spell. You generally dont want it unless your playing glacial but there’s plenty of bad masteries in the game.
In this expansion blizzard decided to go full Thermal Void. One of our most powerful legendaries is actually designed to be perfectly paired with TV.
There is no legendary that favours Glacial Spike build. Yet, 60% of our gear in the loot tables is loaded with mastery.
It really makes you wonder if they actually have braincells in their head.
I’m not asking for it to be good. Hell, I’m not even asking for it to be average. For all I care, it can be mediocre mastery. I just want additional 32 item levels to be an upgrade, regardless of the secondary stat, which simply isn’t the case with mastery, because it’s a downgrade.
You are looking at rings right?
Because otherwise, the raw intellect would make the 32ilvl higher item better
No. I had 2 out of 3 mastery items in my vault. I almost lost my damn crap when rbots told me that despite having intellect, it’s still a downgrade. You underestimate how bad a frost mastery is.
I revisited history to find the report, which I would post if only this miracle of a forum allowed it (makes you wonder why the hell does it even have hyperlink functionality then, but whatever) - turns out I wasn’t fully accurate about the 32 ilvl difference. +23 ilvl downgrade even with intellect seems still bad enough, tho.
Chest: Replacing Sinister Requiem Vestments 229 with Soulsewn Vestments 252 = - 71 DPS in AoE cleave. Mind you, this one has intellect, 84 vs 104, to be exact.
Neck: Replacing Ornately Engraved Amplifier 226 with Trailspinner Pendant 252 = - 135 DPS in AoE cleave.
Then it is legendary or something like that, that is completly changing statweights for my frost mage without a legendary and yes badly geared, single target mastery was lowest but it was 0.68 and the second lowest was rated at 0.69 and was crit.
and dungeon slice Crit 0.86 and mastery 0.73 as the 2 lowest ones. And int being 2.75
But also you are going from a haste heavy piece of item to a mastery heavy item for the chest piece that is not just because mastery is bad it is also because you are going from a very good stat to your worst stat.
Also are you remembering to looking at them with enchant on the new chest? (i assume you have enchanted the first one)
I ask this because it is a very easy mistake to make i have done it myself.
And honestly this is far from bad stats, it is that you are losing haste for them.
Clearly your char need the haste for some reason.
The second one is a neck so no Int.
And items with no main stats are weird this expansion like that.
Yes, I included enchant. Ofc the haste is necessary, but I can pretty much swap haste/crit/vers however I want without significantly affecting my dmg output. Ofc I’m trying to have as good secondary stats as possible, but it is what it is. Meaning that if I lose 3% crit in order to gain 3% haste or vice versa (ofc it changes when I’m over crit cap), I will barely notice the difference in numbers. Playstyle and timing of cooldowns changes slightly, but overall I am able to push roughly the same numbers. When I equip mastery however, everything goes straight to sh!t.
This shouldn’t be a thing. That’s simply bad game design. There shouldn’t be a stat that I need to actively avoid. If I go for crit up until 33%, I am having icy veins on me non-stop in AoE cleaves, but single target dmg suffers. With haste, however, I can push more ST output. Vers kinda increases both, not enough to be dominant in either situation, but enough to be kinda good on average. Mastery? Well, mastery slightly increases dmg output if and only if you are dealing dmg to 8 stationary targets. That seems to be literally the only situation where it is at least somewhat comparable to other stats. It falls behind everything else in all other situations. That’s just idiotic, plain and simple.
You are losing around 100dps in aoe situation. (as you do not even mention single target i would guess it is ok there as you single out aoe.
100dps is not significant.
The statweights i am looking at is similar to most classes i have looked at in that the numbers are quite different to each other and there is a stat that is as bad as mastery is for you.
Now the question is are you looking at it in isolation by only changing 1 item or are you looking at it in changing more then one item as clearly you want the haste is there things you can do to get the same amount of haste you have before the change and sim that number?
Because it very much sounds like you are on some sort of breakpoint place with your haste that when you lose it that is what makes your dps go down.
With how strong Main stat is compared to secondaries, looking at my own mage i would need 58 haste to get the same worth as the int you gained on average.
However that assumes 0 worth of the extra 5 crit and the 108mastery you got on the chest.
And factoring in just the mastery worth on my stat weight i get 78.84 the haste lost is worth 79.2 and the crit gained is worth 4.2
Just looking at my statweights on my Frost mage just from secondary stats i would gain dps. This is all on dungeon slice by the way but it is a similar story on the others i looked at.
Now i would need to know more to be sure and i am doing this without having all the factors i probably should have but it really feels like you are hitting some kind of break point with the haste you have from the old chest piece.
Be it the legendary or something else.
Can you link that chest sim, it seems really odd. My stat weights for 5 targets with freezing winds are:
Intellect 10.51
Haste 4.12
Versatility 4.12
Critical Strike 3.75
Mastery 3.04
You can see how the difference in secondaries shouldn’t matter much against the int increase.
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That is, of course, true, but not really, if you play Kyrian Glacial Spike build. Which actually puts up ST dps somewhat comparable to standard Venthyr TV (it was around 5-7% worse last time I simmd it). And it’s probably not too shabby in AOE with the new Kyrian leggo, though, I haven’t tried it, nor even simmed it yet.
With my 450 mastery I can throw 45k glacials every 30 seconds and 70k every minute (with trinket and Pelagos buffs up).
Which is somewhat 30-40k in BGs and arenas. Add here 12k Ice Lance or 15k Ice Nova (on 3d stack of Radiant Spark) and it’s a oneshot. Highest I’ve ever seen (not including Flag/Orb debuffs) was 55k GS on some poor 20% vers WW monk in 3s. Granted, that was with shammy’s Skyfury totem up.
Something-something Disciplinary Command.
Though, I must agree that’s not GS specific, of course, and is rather niche pick at best. It works, if you wanna see some huge GS crits, but I’d rather prefer something more mastery-specific. Even as plain as passive 30-40% increase to icicle damage.
I mean, I know it’s not the most optimal build, but it’s fun as hell, and it can literally oneshot most people in PvP (even without crit sometimes). I don’t think it needs any buffs, but if you guys gonna cry about it, I’m up for it, lol.
Though, it likely won’t make icicles significantly better for non-GS builds, but will probably make GS builds absurdly OP.
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