Why isn't there endgame content for super casuals?

Community General Discussion
21

Just a few things off the top of my head. One thing i always hoped for is World Quests for every zone that scale to your current level. Have a like 50 different ones for each zone that rotate weekly. Rewards can be everything, from battlepet tokens, to gold, to rep tokens. Also let the rep for each faction continue for those max rep chests. Make like 5 of them active in a zone and rotating.

Also some stuff like invasions in Legion but more common, like roving warbands or something in a specific zone, that have some specific quests.
And as long as I’m going, might as well make all quests scale with level, so it will be fun to redo old stuff and have it be a minor challenge at least.

Also i wouldn’t mind if they expanded on the battlepet gameplay. An overhaul to how pet battles work maybe (like you become you’re battlepet and fight the other in a more real time combat). Add some more Battlepet dungeons.

As mentioned earlier, an update to Archeology, make the profession smoother and add more lore. Can even upgrade older sites and factions to contain lore concerning newer expansions and the like.

Adding more puzzles and treasures throughout all expansions. So if you’re just flying and exploring you might stumble upon random new little tidbits you can engage with. Make them also random appear and disappear.

In short make everything more dynamic. World of Warcraft has a massive world, that’s for the major part been left behind as soon as a new expansion arrives. That shouldn’t be the case in my opinion.

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22

Never disagreed to that :smiley: But this:

Was used as to why gathering wasn’t really good.

Then I don’t see why:

Should fix

Because thse “special nodes” will just be farmed by bots too?

If you (in general not your personally) can’t be bothered by running and immersing yourself in the world and are min maxing your travel time, then special nodes will hardly make you immerse.

23

As someone in guild pointed out , playing wow these days.

Am I playing the game ? Or is the game telling me how I should play it ?

I understand where he’s coming from. You have a to do list. You have to follow min max talents. You have to do XYZ per week to stay on edge.

Even for casuals , blizz makes you go down a certain road to play the game.

Is there freedom how to play TWW or is that freedom just an illusion ?

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24

All I dare to wish is that professions were simpler again… feels like everything else is impossible for them to get right, or make content that entertains for.

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25

World events like in GW2 large scale events that have a starting point and end up in a boss fight for rewards and reputation
PvP events for us who like world pvp like in BFA
More secret quests like the lucid nightmare
More rare spawns that would actually be rare and have totally random spawn points so people could not just camp in one place
World tier sets with set bonus stuff for faster reputation and maybe something tied to professions.
More world drop transmog stuff
More lockboxes for rogues
Class quests
And yes they could update pet battles and archeology too

As a person who has always preferred open world in mmo’s i would like these for starters and more.

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26

Yup the open world really needs more random events both tiny and large scale because as for now open world just feels like a stagnant theatre stage set

27

I agree. Wow has never been this good for casual players. Delves are great and easy even tier 8. Plenty world quests and crafting stuff to do.

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Definition of casual before = I have few game time but I try my best to achieve what I can.
Definition of casual now = I want the best gear of the game with 0 social interaction.

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30

No, definitely not. Is it the worst ever? No, it is not worse than the Apexis quests in Warlords, but it’s worse than anything else.

I’m doing 8s on 4 characters each week right now, and it pretty much sucks. (And BTW, if anyone knows an addon that keeps track of how many Delves you have done on each character, I would appreciate it.)

There is little reason to do any actual world content. None of the WQ gear has been useful since after the first week Delves beyond 3 were open.

WQ do give some Valorstones, but that’s about it. They give no useful gear, very little gold. Coffer Keys from the big ones, so you can have a chance to maybe sometimes, but not often, get a little extra 597 from a Delve, if you are lucky enough to find one for a Slot-That-Won’t-Drop.

And I’m about done with Valorstones on one of my characters anyway, and the others will follow soon. Without M+, I’m Crest-locked at 606 for pieces I got below that ilevel, so Valorstones will just go to waste.

The number of WQ is about the same as DF, maybe a little lower, which is 80% down on Legion/BfA/SL era content. I’d love to see what would happen if they rationed raids and M+ to 20% of what you can currently do in a week - limit to two raid bosses and 3 dungeons per week, maybe? The forums would certainly be fun! :stuck_out_tongue:

(And no, that 80% figure was not anatomically-extracted. I did the actual numbers back in SL. Just compare the number of WQ available in KA to the number available in Legion or BfA to see the difference for yourself.)

I don’t LIKE Delves. I do them, but I don’t like them. They are repetitive. They are tedious. They are boring. I haven’t got all the last bosses properly figured out yet on all 4 classes, so there is something to those, but the rest is just trudge.

I am old, so I truly do appreciate being able to stop, move around to alleviate some discomfort or rest my eyes for a minute, maybe nuke a cup of coffee.

But I still don’t like Delves, and they are not a replacement for having the freedom to move from quest to quest, zone to zone.

This week I should be doing 2 Delves each on 2 characters, and 4 Delves each on the other 2 characters to have a decent chance of not pulling a frownie on the Great Vault of Disappointment. That’s 12 Delves in a week, with almost no actually enjoyable world content mixed in. That’s 12 more than I want to do. I really can’t face 2 Delves a day.

And what can I do with alts? Raise them just to do even MORE Delves? No way!

I don’t hate Delves. I hate that they’re all we’ve got - that the devs took away actual World content entirely to make space for them.

So no, world content is NOT good this expansion.

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31

That again would be a half measure that actively punishes people who participate in lots of content by requiring another set of gear in their bags. We need more convenience on this subject, not more rules.

To be devil’s advocate, people who want to be immersed in the world are massively punished by doing that. Imposing a self-rule of not using skyriding or even steady flight makes your daily routine need more than 10 times over the current time; or equivalently the amount of things that one would manage to complete/earn in the same time frame as a skyrider would be less than 90% lower.

By the time one completes all 20 or so active world quests by using all travel tools available to them, an immerser of the above type would still not have finished half of Isle of Dorn.

It’s this reason why on these discussions about a “hardmode” overworld with classic mechanics I have been advocating for the rewards of that mode to be at least 10x more than the current ones.

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Feel free to share your idea then, cos sofar i didnt see any other idea.

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I don’t like crafting professions as they are right now, but to include this in a list when the complaint is ‘I have nothing to do at endgame’ is a bit silly. In fact; they’ve changed professions in DF because they wanted to give crafters more of an endgame. So to ask that to be taken away from them is ironic.

And yes, that’s coming from someone who doesn’t enjoy this iteration of crafting professions (I think gathering is fine though).

But overal I agree with the spirit of your post. I too would like the world to be used more, and more meaningful. I like delves, but I don’t enjoy being inside a dark hole for most of my time in the game; I like to be out and about.

For me that’s probably TWW’s biggest issue: There’s almost nowhere, where I can be outside. Isle of Dorn is the only one, and compared to DF’s zones, it feels rather small honestly.

Even Hallowfall, which has a few beautiful locations, still is not a place I want to be for any prolonged period. So yeah, I hope Blizzard will stop making underground zones. It just doesn’t work for me.

I also hope they’ll start doing delves that are located outside; to me that would feel a whole lot better - and for the love of God; no more underwater delves!

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34

I have posted in some other thread:

  • Every piece of equipment will have 4 intrinsic item levels: Base, Dungeons, Raids, PvP.
  • Every item will have initial values for all the 4 above set as:
    – Green quality: 554
    – Blue quality: 567
    – Epic quality: 580
  • When one acquires an item for a specific slot from a specific activity, then all items from now on for that specific slot, no matter where they came from, will automatically be upgraded to that item level. For example, let’s say I somehow managed to get a naked character to level 80 and enter a normal raid and earn a helmet. It’s initial values are: Base 580, Dungeons 580, Raids 593, PvP 580. Notice that it has higher item level in Raid. Now all items that I earn will have at least the above values, no matter their source.
  • Then I go to the honor vendor and purchase a green helmet. The rules above state that its ilvl values are: Base 554, Dungeons 554, Raids 554, PvP 626. But since I have already equipped a helmet that has some higher values unlocked for me, then both items become: Base 580, Dungeons 580, Raids 593, PvP 626. So I can keep the helmet from Honor vendor if I like its secondary stats more and vendor the helmet from the raid, or keep the helmet from the raid and vendor the helmet from the honor vendor.

That’s it. With my suggestion there is no interfering of gear upgrades from different content, because even if you earn a 639 from Mythic raid, it would still work as 580 in overworld, dungeons and pvp unless one has already unlocked a higher item level at that item slot. You have to do the content you like to achieve the best equipment in said content. And at the same time you no longer need different sets, except of course for weapons/trinkets/embelishments for different roles.

35

So technically the same as my idea.

I think this from programming side is harder than just make another geartype like pvp.

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Not the same unless I didn’t understand it. The way you worded it, I would need a completely different item for PvP, a completely different item for M+, and a completely different item for raiding. Under my system, all 3 items would be exactly identical item level for each respective content, therefore the player would need to keep only 1 item in their bags (the one with the “best” secondary stats).

From a programming point of view it already exists. We have it for PvP.

37

OK… so here is the reality of your situation:

They have tried desperately to make players play out-door content. REALLY hard for the last 20 years. And I can give you a TON of different things they tried for each expansion. Let me know if you feel like a fat paragraph to spend the rest of the afternoon reading.

But… and here is the catch…

NOBODY wants to do it. If they don’t give us rewards that increase our power in M+, Raids and PvP we do it ONCE to get the lore and then that’s it. We don’t KEEP going there because its fun. In other words, Blizzard spends 3 months to make a new zone. We finish it in 1 week and never return.

And you can see it in all the Open World zones of EVERY single expansion. Once we get our carrot-bait items/AP the zones become empty. Nobody goes there.

Why ? Because “true world players” like yourself are a VERY, VERY small minority of players. Most players want the classic D&D situation of prepping and gearing to fight a massive dragon in an epic confrontation. And then get some shiny loot, ready to kill the next massive monster.

And that is the reality of the situation you are in. Accept it. You are 20 years in denial at this point … :slight_smile:

38

Name an expac
with more solo play with progression…

Like every other expac once your reach the gear limit? They no longer provide rewarding items… and that was your lot before delves

That has to do with delves? There is no time limit…

If you don’t know why alts are fun and useful by now lol…

Sorry but your post makes no sense from a solo player perspective… You would have had zero gear and meaninless drops from worldquests after a 2 weeks…

Hm the small minority are raiders and PvP… and M+ close to that…

39

I think you’re wrong. That’s what a lot of people wanted years ago, but then the reality hit them: That depending on others to be able to run content is not fun. To be yelled at or ridiculed for making a mistake is not fun. To have loot taken away from you because you’re not in the raid leader’s inner circle. That even getting to raid is often up to the whims of greedy, selfish people. And I could continue with examples like this for a long time.

That’s why many players prefer to not interact with that side of the game; because players ruined it.

Now; people who completely stick to only doing world content are rare, sure. But that’s only because most people see no choice but to do ‘some other stuff’, because yes, you’re going to run out of things to do in the outside world.

I myself am an example of this. I would love to be able to only do world content. But I know that’s just not possible unless I want the game to become boring, limited and stale for me very very quickly.
So I do delves. I do some dungeons (as long as it’s queue-able). I do some LFR.
Because I like progression. I like it when my character gets stronger. I would love for the outdoor world to provide me with such an option. And I think you underestimate just how many people feel the same way and how many people would become ‘true world content players’ if given a realistic option to do so.

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40

Lets agree to disagree. You don’t get yelled at for making mistakes and stuff like that. It sounds to me you got offended ONCE and stubbornly refuse to try again. Which is fair, but IMO what is not fair is extrapolating that to “all the dungeons” or “all the community”. Feels unfair to me, because 99% of the time people are super friendly. :slight_smile:

Basically, Tah your statements are so bold that it beckons proof. Lets do a key and prove to me how “horrible” people are. :slight_smile:

But lets not talk about that. Lets talk about the fact that if I were to go to ANY open world zone right now I would find a handful of people.

I just did the test. I looked at /who in the Ringing Deeps and got unique 37 people. I did the /who inside “The Dawnbreaker” and counted 211 people. Unfortunately, the /who is limited to 50 people. So I did this across a couple of level 1 characters I have, and I am certain there are more. I just stopped counting.

The numbers I got are not really a good indication either way. It just points to a direction. What I did then is fly around the the open world to see what is going on.

Results :

In the Ringing Deeps I had trouble to find 3 people. Then I went to the “spreading the light” world quest zone in Hollowfal. I found a grand total of 4 people there.

I went to the summoning stone of the raid and there I had trouble to even SEE the stone from the amount of people sitting on it.

So. TLDR. My numbers might be a bit “wonkers”, but I can see it with my own eyes flying around.

And this is TODAY. If I were to give you examples of what happened to The Forbidden Reach, Zaralec Cavern, and Amirdrassil in DF… it would 100% be the same. Not to mention the 4 zones at launch… ALL dead after a couple of weeks when people got their “shinies”.

But you can argue those were boring. So lets go back even further. What happened in Korthia, the Maw, and Zereth Mortis. And the 4 zones of SL at lauch. Same thing.

So its not just “opinion” here. Its what I see when I go to the open world. And its what others see too. Every week there is one of these:

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Oh I wasn’t doing that. But stuff like what I describe (and worse) does happen, a lot.

I see what you’re doing. :face_with_raised_eyebrow: :kissing_heart:

Yes, which just proves one of the points I was making.
World content isn’t ‘interesting enough’ for most players. And I’m sure you understand what ‘not interesting enough’ means in this case: Not rewarding.

What I said was that if Blizzard would make actual interesting and fun and rewarding outdoor activities, you would have loads more ‘true world content players’.

Most players that want to be ‘true world content players’ aren’t because it’s just not a viable way to enjoy the game at the moment. Not if you want progression and such.

That was the main point of my post. There’s more potential ‘true world content players’ out there than you think. And Delves for sure have drained players from the zones as well; sure we have something to do now, but it’s at the cost of zone population.

True outdoor progression would be the solution. Zones that have difficulty levels; and they could even have more advanced/elaborate events and such for higher difficulties, for example. The problem is; how do you scale something that you can roam around in freely. People would zerg things and that would destroy difficulty, for instance.

So it’s probably going to stay largely irrelevant to WoW’s endgame, I think. And that’s unfortunate.

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