I only needed to read your first point. You do not even understand the arguments that you are arguing against.
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Because im so certain i am correct, only those who are not thinking logically dont want RDF.
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That’s not the social aspect of it. The time it takes to build a group gets you all talking. Everyone is from your realm, and you start to notice the same names again and again, and out in the real world. That builds up a feeling of community.
This hasn’t been my experience at all. I can’t think of a single dungeon I’ve done in the past week that didn’t have some kind of banter happening.
Having other areas to be social doesn’t mean that removing the social aspect of another isn’t reducing the games ability to form a social environment. Silent RDF spam was the single biggest killer of social interaction.
One argument you missed is the world cohesiveness. Generally speaking, there are three main reasons to play an mmorpg
-Gameplay
-Story & world
-Social aspect
It’s already established that RDF damages the social aspect, but I’m more concerned with the story & world part. As it stands, dungeons make sense in the world. They are locations of great danger, and a band of nameless, expendable adventurers are suited to go and tackle that situation. Powerful runestones can be used to summon all the members to the location. It all makes sense in an in-world reality setting.
Adding RDF breaks that world-cohesiveness. You sit in the capital city, suddenly you’re in a dungeon, suddenly you’re back in the capital city, suddenly you’re back in the same dungeon, suddenly you’re back in the capital city, suddenly you’re in a different dungeon because hey levels.
This is something given less appreciation than it deserves: the world needs to be cohesive, and make sense. World building is what made Vanilla and TBC so successful, you were never the focus of the game, the world was the focus of the game and you were just lucky enough to be there.
This isn’t just isolated to WoW either, its a large part of the reason that Elden Ring has been so successful, and why Dark Souls has such a dedicated community that trawls through item descriptions to learn about the world, its why FFXIV has such a committed playerbase, and it’s why people remember dungeons like Deadmines, Hellfire Citadel, The Nexus, but don’t remember dungeons from later expansions.
Once the world building starts to decline, you’re only left with gameplay and social reasons to play, but the social aspect will start to take a hit with this change too. So if gameplay is the only reason left to play, then why play WoW when there are so many other games with much more engaging gameplay.
And this is reflected in the subscriber count: after wotlk blizz made moves to make the game more convenient, and reduce the role of the world in the game. That’s when we see numbers decline, which isn’t due to lack of time or interest in the i.p. of warcraft itself, as people surge back in millions to play later expansions, and that’s the story that brings them back.
But hey, that’s worth sacrificing so you can sit in dalaran riding in circles waiting for a queue to pop and don’t have to bother whispering people right?
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Actually thinking on this: I was running dungeons with my cousin in the US last night, but I can’t remember the names of the current dungeons off the top of my head…
I can visually remember them and the pulls and tank tactics, but I can’t actually remember the names of them…
So far we have people who clearly didnt read the whole post, making bad arguments ive already gone over and others claiming they can counter my arguments, but they clearly cant.
If i was wrong, i wouldnt speak, still waiting on a single valid argument as to why im not correct on every point.
This is my answer.
If you played Wotlk recently, you are free to prove me i’m wrong, if you just played Wotlk 10 years ago, then you are stuck in your old memories.
RDF has costs and benefits, the whole argument comes down which outweights which. You can’t argue for it by just saying “it’s logical”, there are people here for whom potential loss of “finding new friends and guildmates and having people be accounable for toxic behaviour” will outweight any amount of convenience and benefit and even existance of dungeon runs at all that we can possibly name.
In either case, what’s the point? You can construct a brilliand for or agains argument, and maybe swey a few fence sitters who read it to favour your side. Blizzard wont even read it and I think they aren’t adding it simply because they can’t get it to work.
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Your arguments are subjective, you can’t just declare every counter-argument isn’t acceptable.
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That’s not how it is for 99% of the groups. You obviously didn’t PUG a lot.
I’ve been playing on a server with about 1500 players, so it was really small. But even on this server I rarely saw names twice.
And the only thing people were talking about while forming a group was, how it always takes ages to form groups or often just: “Sorry, I have to go. This is taking to long.”
If you really think this is some valuable social interaction, you either have Stockholm syndrom or you don’t know what you are talking about, because you didn’t PUG at all.
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I’ve leveled exclusively by doing dungeons on my warrior and paladin, since I simply don’t like questing. So on Firemaw, one of the highest population realms, it’s definitely like this.
Sounds like you’re the one that hasn’t done much pugging
Ok obviously I didn’t PUG because I rarely encountered players a second time in dungeon. What kind of logic is that?
Maybe in leveling dungeons it’s different, because the pool of players to pick from is much smaller. But from level 60-70 and especially on max level, there is absolutely no chance you’ve kept running into the same players over and over when there are 14k players on the server.
Even if we assume that only 10% of the players are running PUG dungeons, the probability to run into the same player twice in a pool of 1400 players is 0.28%
The probability to run into the same player 3 times becomes 0.000784%.
So either you’ve made an really unprobable experience or you are straight up lying here. My point stays. For 99% of players it’s not like you initially described it to be.
I guess you’ve been just running with guild and friends mostly and that’s why you kept running into the same people in dungeons over and over and also why you had banter during the group building process.
But this has nothing to do with PUGing and obviously you’ve only played with a minuscule part of the server then and don’t have any idea what PUGing and the community is like.
So you are not qualified to talk on this topic.
No.
Aaaanyyyywaaaaayyyyy: I don’t want RDF, because I want classic to be the legacy game in its spirit, I return to, when I don’t feel like playing retail. I don’t care, if it’s a 1 to 1 recreation. I only care about how it feels like to play
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This is also because they were the first Dungeons we played. First impressions last as the saying goes. I still remember my first flight to Stormwind - the whole family came and looked - do I remember all the others to new places? nope. Try remembering the names of Quests from later expansions. Only a few will surface, and mostly from the zone you did first.
Yes and no. For me Dungens are things out of place and time - instances. I go there, I do my stuff, I go back to my levelling in the world - the real studff for me. I don’t sit in the capital and wait, like ever.
Summoning stones were a big plus, but I still had to travel back after Dungeon was done.
This is to tell that I am not going to do Dungeons without the teleport there and back.
I like tanking, but I do it only for fun, to help out my friends and guildies. For me the real joy and fun is out in the open world, questing, exploring, fuishing and hunting. So you won’t fnd me doing Dungeons in Wrath for a long time. There’s too much new ground to be discovered. And when I’m done discovering, and want to spend my time trying to finally levell my IronMan to 60 in Era, there won’t be a TP to make me go to Dungeons. I can of course stay outside of one of them, fishing in the hope this is what my friends need done. But you know, you can only use your time once.
My arguments are facts, nothing less.
No one can counter them, with anything relevant.
So sad i cant reply to each comment, stupid way to design forums.
The same logic you used, obviously I didn’t pug because I actually had conversations with people in dungeons from 15-70.
Except not every player is max level, and the people that do pug are likely to do so more often than those that don’t. You’re just arguing for the sake of arguing.
I pugged with whoever else was pugging, that would be the pug community.
Your arguments are just illogical. Go do some pugging before talking like an authority on the topic.
Your first dungeon was definitely not the Nexus if Deadmines was also your first dungeon. It can be true for one of those, but not all three. That’s why your argument doesn’t apply here.
If you don’t enjoy the process of doing a dungeon, then don’t do them if they’re not fun for you. Needing everything to be instant, instant dungeons, instant AH, instant bgs, instant raids, instant leveling, then this might as well not be an open world mmorpg, but a instanced hub mmorpg. Perhaps this simply isn’t the game for you.
Okay, now I know you’re a troll
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First of the relevant expansion - after a break you remember better again - I don’t remember Nexus no, don’t think I ever played it (Hellfire either - I know I have soloed it later for transmog gear) . It was generally spoken here.
Nonsense.
I want the opposite of instant. I level via Quests and grinding only. I have spoken against XP buffs, I don’t do BGs, I don’t do Raids either, and I want the AH to stay as it is now. Heck I don’t even use any addons. I am probably the most Classic Andy you’lll ever find in the Forums 
.
I run dungeons only to help my friends out, not to level. In Retail (long ago) I often went and stopped XP progress before a dungeon by visiting Behsten (one of the more expensive visits in-game 
)
But I won’t spend half an hour or more of my meagre playtime to only get to the dungeon and back. In all of Classic so far, I’ve run 3 Dungeons.
I do not mind for or against the RDF I just want to tell you that your arguments are not the whole truth.
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You don’t need to PUG to have conversations in dungeons. You just have to run dungeons. So my logic stands, why yours fails.
And that’s why I only assumed 10% of the playerbase as potential pool. Which already is very small, considering, that all of those 14k players are obviously level 70, because the number comes from WCL and most of them will have ran dungeons at times.
I am arguing because I am showing where your statements fail. You are arguing just to argue right now.
And yet you couldn’t point out where my logic failed. You just made some fake arguments, that I easily dismantled.
And the more you talk the more I am set that you in fact didn’t PUG at all. Right now I am not sure you even know what PUGing means. So I’ll explain to you. A PUG is a Pick Up Group. It’s a group of strangers running a dungeon. When you run with guildies or friends it’s not a PUG.
You read things into his statement, he never said. Just because he doesn’t like to travel to dungeons doesn’t mean he doesn’t like to do dungeons. In TBCC nobody wants to travel to the dungeon. 2 have to travel and 3 are just waiting to get summoned. And with the RDF teleportation is suddenly a bad thing.
This just shows some people will do anything to argue against the RDF. Even if it’s not logical and they actually don’t really have problem with the thing they criticize as long as it’s not in the RDF.
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This is what I wrote and then deleted agin. You are so right.
The funny thing is, that’s what he accused me of doing. I am just pointing out the holes in his argumentation.
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