lol, rogue has so many cooldowns, that’s before you count in vanish.
1 Like
if evoker was available to all races then it whould increase.
just remember folks. tauren rogues…
1 Like
myself i love rogues, outlaw pistol shootin badassary.
in solo pve that is.
1 Like
Exactly, for soloq rogue currently is one of the hardest classes. But this is ridiculous, cause rogue should excel at things like that. With vanilla or tbc class designs and balance, soloqs would often consist of 4 rogues and 2 healers. It’s just now everyone else can do zug zug and CC with much less effort than rogue, cause rogue’s toolkit is still stuck in vanilla days BUT now it is also nerfed to oblivion! And because that toolkit is still (wrongly) perceived as very powerful for some reason, and, as Aprix brilliantly put it, because of stealth tax, rogues also lack in both survivability and damage (well, they can probably do some good damage if nobody stops them, but that rarely happens in arena).
Yeah, there’s too much crap that pulls rogues out of stealth now. And the funniest thing - what does Blizzard do? Delete absorb-when-entering-stealth talent that was initially added to combat precisely that! And now there are a lot more bugs with stealth and combat than even in shadowlands, this is a damn circus.
Well said. What I advocate for is precisely not just buffing rogues but also nerfing others so PvP is less of a
and more thinking. I don’t even request a lot of thinking. Just a little bit more than now would come a long way already)
This is exactly how I feel as well, except the paladin thing. Haven’t tried it since cata and honestly I just hate the class fantasy. I love being rogue. Just let us be rogues, damn blizzard
Yes, but now a very faint shadow of previous self. I described all of them in the initial post, you can scroll up and compare to what others have / to what rogues had before. And everyone else got a lot of cooldowns as well.
2 Likes
No one has vanish
It used to be that no one had stuns except rogues, warriors, paladins and druids in bear form. And tauren. Maybe warlocks had sfury, I don’t remember (thad coil and fear though). And those stuns were significantly weaker than the ones rogue had.
Nobody else had blind or gouge, nobody else even had sprint if I remember correctly. Well, druids probably had dash, but only in cat form.
Then warlocks definitely got sfury (in destruction), mages got deepfreeze. Then dk came with chains that basically rooted with talents and they had pet stun.
In cata rogue got recuperate, smoke bomb and I think they had 1 min cloak? not sure. DK got asphyxiate, paladins got blind, probably forgot a lot of stuff about other classes here.
Then in MoP monks came who had ridiculous fists that did a lot of damage and stunned. And they had a separate AoE stun and a ranged gouge. They also had insane mobility (still do but not sure which version is stronger). Warriors got bolt and wave in every spec, as well as second charge or charge that stunned (now it’s only a root IIRC). Warlocks got sfury in every spec if memory serves. Something else I probably forgot. Almost every class got a strong CC and sprint (s) and / or blink(s) by that point. Rogue only got burst of speed.
Burst of speed got deleted entirely in WoD, along with 40-50% passive dodge (nothing was given back). Maybe sprint became 1 min cd here? don’t remember when that happened.
Then dh came with mass stun, ranged gouge and the best mobility in the game.
Then evoker with yet again the best mobility, stuns, anti-CC and whatever else CC it has. And it’s pumping insane damage as devastation / almost immortal as pres.
Now rogue can have two vanishes, which are weaker than before (3 sec improved stealth, was 5 or 6 before) and cloak is back to 2 min cd (don’t remember since when). Stuns are nerfed to the ground (kidney cooldown increased and it has the same DR with cheap shot now). Damage is only during cooldowns now. Preparation got deleted long time ago. Blind is 5 second duration, so you can’t even vanish sap after blind. Gouge is still melee and to the face when monk and dh do it from 20yds.
And I didn’t even mention fear, sleep, charm and root effects. There’s much more of this crap now than ever before. Earlier you could vanish roots and it was meaningful, it could win you a game. Now you will immediately eat another CC and just possibly wasted vanish for nothing.
But if you care only about vanish, then rogue is for you. Or druid night elf. Or a hunter) Ok those are a bit weaker than vanish I guess. Maybe that’s why I play rogue, cause I like vanish) Currently, rogue is still weak as hell compared to what it was even in MoP, when it was pretty bad (nerfed to hell after being OP in cata, was one of the weakest). The damage might be better compared to MoP, if you can burst freely, but in terms of everything else it’s much weaker.
Because rogue is simply no longer fun.
I mained my undead rogue from classic to legion.
Loved the combat spec, hated the outlaw spec with the buccaneer theme and that stupid roll the bones.
I started enjoying DH as it felt like the old rogue minus stealth, which make sense given it was the same guy who made both class at the time.
Could easily feel he took the fun things from rogue and shoved it into the DH.
Tried leveling one up during last xp event and even though I got one (technically 2 with token) it’s just so god awful boring to play.
2 Likes
TL;DR:
Rogue is a boring fantasy with all the other choices available , simple as.
Can’t say much about other specs but after playing outlaw last patch it needs a rework. Remove roll the bobes or make it a flat damage buff, not something you need to read a guide to understand what it does and have a weakaura to track the buffs you need to track. Blade flurry could probably benefit from a soft cap instead of a hard aoe cap.
And the pirate fantasy of the spec is garbage, I’d much rather be a theif/generic outlaw.
4 Likes
Don’t know if it’s energy that drives people away from rogue, but Your last statement can generally be applied to all classes: the farther we go back, the slower the classes are. Just look at extreme examples like vanilla paladin.
They’d never do that, due to the rule of cool - being a generic outlaw/thief probably doesn’t sound cool enough to most people, even if it would fit the story better.
1 Like
What a wall of text again…
You just done an essay on why rogues have so much even if ‘nerfed’ compared to past iterations.
The comparison with feral and shadowmeld is laughable and always has been. It’s my favourite racial because it’s useful but it’s just not reliable by design - it’s no where near as effective as vanish - sneezing breaks it.
Vanish together with cloak of shadows are rogues get out of jail free cards.
I agree, I also started as rogue and played as main till tbc and would still play it more but I dont find any of the 3 specs too fun and I agree with most that it just needs complete overhaul for modern, it feels like its stuck in the past just like many other classes do. Blizz puts new heros that feel more fluid like you said and forgets about the old ones for few years before there is some bit of rework to a degree, I wish they rework the old ones to be more in line with modern wow designs at some point too.
If look at dh and devoker designs and mechanics its easy to understand why they are fun, then if one looks at rogues or warlocks class designs now its easy to see they were made in vanil. They have done some improvements but still mostly feel outdated atleast for me. My mage feels ten times more fluid than playing rog or lock and if I wanted to play real modern caster I would have to play deva that has even better design overall than mages but I dont wish to be lizard so.
I didn’t enjoy leveling the class (I went with the Outlaw spec here) since much of its basic function was not very accessible with its high energy cost and the general speed of which enemies are defeated - You were never able to utilize your combos and were constantly energy starved unless you went out of your way to specifically go for talents that provide extra energy to even function.
Then you get suddenly dogpiled with +energy/CP talents at the lower end of the tree you barely could adjust.
And then came the Fatebinder hero spec along as well, and I was at … 8 or even 9 max CP, gaining up to 6(?) on a single attack, constantly overcapping with 2 attacks before dumping it. And this coin mechanic was such a unnecessary complicated thing to track on top of many other things.
And when you look at the Evoker in comparison - Just need to maintain the beam on the enemy or spam Pyre, and keep the empowered spells on cooldown. And that’s nearly all to that class.
2 Likes
The outlaw roll the bones design is terrible. Only positive is the that its not finisher anymore. I was playing outlaw in m+ when you had to kept rolling it if you wished fish for best buffs, the most unfun design since rune of power.
1 Like
I think it could benefit from extra trackers that is on the HUD itself as a default design, and nothing you need a extra add-on for. But that would need Blizzard to properly explain and maintain it, for which they cannot be bothered with.
1 Like
they should made outlaw just pistol specced. long ranged dps.
that whould be interesting.
4 Likes
No, outlaw should be warrior/rogue; bruiser style. More damage reduction and maybe some sustain also. More like open combat. And it is. But it should be more like that, in my opinion.
Not that I hate the pistol, it’s not that. It’s the gameplay I want. Should be popular, reading how stealth is these days. But it seems it is not.
3 Likes
I kinda would like the pistolero pew pewer but I get that wouldnt be for everyone if they made it into gunslinger, but I mean they reworked retri to be more like ranged caster than actual melee too so 
I don’t hate it either, I just love melee more.
Why not have it go into hybrid? With emphazis being on open combat.
A mid-range/melee hybrid.
The price would be limited stealth, and other things of course.
I don’t play either subtlety or assassination so I can’t really say anything in-depth but what I feel.
Maybe there would be the cost of dual wield? Like you have a pistol so naturally you only have one dagger/mace/sword? But you can use the pistol in melee also, point blank shot, but not as much as you could dual wield.
That goes against the current mastery though, which is based around dual wield procs.
The pistol could work as an off-hand but it’s very slow?
Then again… I really enjoy dual wielding…
2 Likes
Or just complete new class as gunslinger/wizard now that would be cool but thats another topic 
2 Likes