Why so scared to add more/new abilities?

[Ishayoe-frostmane (Ishayoe)]

@Hypxbruh-aegwynn

You claimed that the average player has about 60 keybinds and I simply said that i highly doubt that.

But in general man, you take that anti un-pruning stance very seriously it seems and all I want is blizzard to raise the skill floor a bit, what’s the problem with that ?

I did not, at any point, say that the average player has 60 keybinds. In fact the words “average player” do not appear in that post. I claimed that I have 60 keybinds, and I claimed that any player who wants to engage with every aspect of the game, excepting a few classes like Demon Hunters, will have the same number of abilities.

@Xerxor-shattered-hand

You don´t NEED to bind every ability. Some are very situational. If you wanna be competetive/top of the line and reach gladiator, yeah then you will have to bind most keys, along with macros, but that´s just how the game works and always will work. If you want the pay off, you gotta put in the work.

Yes, you do need to.

It depends on how many situations you play.

If you only PvP, you can skip a bunch of the buttons I mentioned.
If you only PvE, you can skip another bunch of the buttons I mentioned.

If you do both… gotta catch 'em all.

And hey, it’s great that you think I should just “put in the work” but if we go back to MoP with base abilities + all the PvP talents and special items and abilities of BfA, then I will literally run out of reachable keybinds. At that point it won’t even be about skill, it’ll be about the physical size of my hand (which is quite small, actually). Women will also have extra large amounts of problems here because their hands are simply smaller on average than that of men.

I should not have to reach for binds like F4 or Y or H, J, N etc. in the middle of combat.

I think the approach they’re taking in Shadowlands is fine, though, but the OP clearly doesn’t agree with that approach. He wants more buttons. WAY more buttons.

@Xerxor-shattered-hand

And MOP pvp was great fun - not everything is about the arena, and from what I see from prominent pvpers in general is a great love for MOP class design anyway, you are the exception.

No, it’s not fun to sit in a CC for 80% of the game. It’s not fun to have PvP be a dance of 50 different buttons with 50 different CD’s on them. At that point it just turns into a blur that is impossible to understand for anyone but the most hardcore. The game becomes unapproachable and unwatchable.

Going into a BG setting makes the problem worse. The only reason you didn’t see it is because you never experienced high-end competitive play in MoP.

@Xerxor-shattered-hand

I myself got much more spells off, since casters actually had tools to combat melee, and healers for that matter. Healers are too powerful now that so many control tools have been pruned. But I guess you like that.

No, I don’t like it if healers are overpowered, but healers are overpowered because they’ve got to be able to put up with getting trucked or having an ally be trucked relentlessly by 2 players with there being no way to peel them off. That’s why there are so many cooldowns in the game, and that’s why healers can get away with it.

Also, healers really aren’t OP. Their mana bars are, though, and that’s why we get the progressive healer nerf in arena - it forces healers to use less efficient spells over time while simultaneously “un-breaking” the early CD spam hellscape.

@Xerxor-shattered-hand

MoP fire mage was incredible. Super fun. So much flair and options, without being OP, since all classes were strong utility wise. BfA fire is a one trick pony, an abomination. Bland and boring.

Yes, fire is bland and boring compared to what it used to be, although I have to admit I find it quite fun, because there are 10+ different effects all being stacked on top of another in the service of making Combustion very strong. It’s about the Azerite traits and the mastery corruptions and Hyperthread Wristwraps and the Rune of Power, etc.

This is what I meant with stacking offensive CD’s and effects multiplying together into a swifty macro breaks the game. Because of the GCD change, this now also takes the form of being incredibly elaborate charging-my-laz0rs moments. It is not fun, and it needs to go away.

WotLK started this trend, infamously causing the “cleave comp” phenomenon, and by MoP it had already reached full flower. In the case of Fire, however, it got even worse in subsequent expansions, but that’s very specific to fire - but it is bad generally across the board.

@Retributor-draenor

you dont need those binds you’re not top1 guild mythic raider lel

Yes, you do.

@Calaxina-stormscale

Im talking ABOUT ROTATIONS, not OPTIONAL skills

Why do you want these hilariously overcomplicated “rotations”? Do you enjoy fighting your own keyboard in order to accomplish simple tasks?

I have to say I prefer having options in my rotations so I can adapt it to my situation and have an active thought process as I play, as opposed to just pressing 1223567812235678122356781223567812235678122356781223567812235678122356781223567812235678122356781223567812235678 with an occasional 4 in there because 4 procced.

[Calaxina-stormscale]

@Ishayoe-frostmane

I did not, at any point, say that the average player has 60 keybinds. In fact the words “average player” do not appear in that post. I claimed that I have 60 keybinds, and I claimed that any player who wants to engage with every aspect of the game, excepting a few classes like Demon Hunters, will have the same number of abilities.

now listen to me, the fact you have lots of spells keybinded of the same spell for pve and pvp separately makes you bad player.
The cost you pay for not being able to switch targets yourself is fact you must deal with more keybinds, ITS FAIR

[Gerred-outland]

not only add, but replace.

Theres really boring spells in game right now like the armor buffing spell for druirds, or the swipe/trash spells that are essentially the same with a different name.

[Hypxbruh-aegwynn (Hypxbruh)]

Ok d000d keep on keeping on, I hope you are plenty salty we get some unprune action in Shadowlands.

Maybe you’ll need to read some guides on how to play your class efficiently when the game goes live, I for my part do not have any issues regarding space on my action bars. And I don’t klick anything + have a ton of macros.

If everything falls apart I still have bartender to fall back to.

[Ishayoe-frostmane (Ishayoe)]

@Calaxina-stormscale

now listen to me, the fact you have lots of spells keybinded of the same spell for pve and pvp separately makes you bad player.

No, it doesn’t. :')

But hey, if I’m a bad player, what does that make you?

@Calaxina-stormscale

The cost you pay for not being able to switch targets yourself is fact you must deal with more keybinds, ITS FAIR

The reason we make these macros is because it’s really difficult (i.e. impossible) to swap to a specific target and hit the interrupt button within 1 second when all the nameplates are stacked on top of one another or underneath one another.

You can call me a bad player for needing to make such binds to do that all you like, but you know that you can’t do it at all because you don’t have those binds, so I’m not particularly concerned about that opinion. :'D

@Hypxbruh-aegwynn

Ok d000d keep on keeping on, I hope you are plenty salty we get some unprune action in Shadowlands.

I’m not. I’m gonna get salty about going further and adding even more CD’s or just putting tons of mandatory rotation spells into the game en masse, which is very different to what they’re doing in Shadowlands.

[Calaxina-stormscale]

@Hypxbruh-aegwynn

I for my part do not have any issues regarding space on my action bars

no one has, literally all classes made on 110 trial haven’t even taken 2 whole bars and food+ mount is there too

[Xerxor-shattered-hand]

@Ishayoe-frostmane

No, it’s not fun to sit in a CC for 80% of the game.

Beats not being able to kite at all as a caster.

@Ishayoe-frostmane

ally be trucked relentlessly by 2 players with there being no way to peel them off

Well isn´t this situation a result of removing a bunch of control tools from classes? Look at an Arcane Mage nowadays, they have poly and a 30 second frost nova as cc - it´s ridiculously inadequate, pvp is a melee zerg pretty much due to pruning hitting casters harder.

[Theloa-stormscale (Theloa)]

Rogues never really got entirely pruned though you have a robust kit as it is gauge should be on all specs as well as poison and kidney shot then you have so many tools more in fact double that most.

[Ishayoe-frostmane (Ishayoe)]

@Xerxor-shattered-hand

Well isn´t this situation a result of removing a bunch of control tools from classes?

Adding control also gives control to those who are trucking

@Xerxor-shattered-hand

Arcane Mage nowadays, they have poly and a 30 second frost nova as cc - it´s ridiculously inadequate, pvp is a melee zerg pretty much due to pruning hitting casters harder.

And a spammable 50% slow pared with a 50% sprint and 4 blinks every 40 seconds and PoM+poly and ring ring of frost and cone of cold but you know besides that, not much.

[Xerxor-shattered-hand]

@Ishayoe-frostmane

Adding control also gives control to those who are trucking

They are not the same specs generally. Ranged do not truck.

@Ishayoe-frostmane

And a spammable 50% slow pared with a 50% sprint and 4 blinks every 40 seconds and PoM+poly and ring ring of frost and cone of cold but you know besides that, not much.

This shows your game knowledge is lacking. I was talking about peeling capability, which is weak for casters. POM does not work with poly, only Arcane Blast. Chrono Shift is a must take (even more so in shadowlands since shimmer is nerfed and displacement removed) and makes Ring of Frost unusable since they are on the same row. AND Cone of Cold is frost only.

What game are you playing? How can you believe you are a top player with such limited knowledge of game mechanics? You play a mage yourself as well - ridiculous!!! Talk about showing your ignorance. WOW.

[Ishayoe-frostmane (Ishayoe)]

Point taken.

Honestly, literally nobody plays Arcane in PvE, and certainly not in PvP, right now. I haven’t seen one or tried it in over a year, so I actually hadn’t noticed the change to Presence of Mind. Nobody ever uses it xD

In fact I haven’t played Arcane since Legion, in which all the things I said were true. Maybe there’s a reason nobody plays it now, hmm…

Also, your “forgot” a lot of things, too.

Anyway, it’s true that you can only pick one or the other between Ring of Shift, and it also was previously. Does that mean I shouldn’t count the other as being available?

Should I also post that Mages don’t have Mirror Image now that we’re at it?

[Vindolf-draenor]

I made a post about this, they are removing ranged stun from outlaw and removing nightblade from sub. When did “unpruning” turn into removing abilities to homogenize the specs?

[Xerxor-shattered-hand]

@Ishayoe-frostmane

Should I also post that Mages don’t have Mirror Image now that we’re at it?

Post whatever you want. There is a lot of stuff classes are missing. I just hope they unprune some more, and tweak some things like giving mages MoP Alter Time instead of the WoD version. Well, I don´t have much hope.

As it stands now I´m gonna go back to shaman, at least they are reverting much of their design mistakes with them it seems. Too bad, cause I´d rather main my mage, rogue or shadow priest, but alas. Can´t stand class design since MoP.

[Hoodoodle-doomhammer]

@Calaxina-stormscale

THE POST IS ABOUT COMBAT ROTATIONS, NOT OPTIONAL SKILLS.

My guess why they don’t add new rotation abilities in a lot of cases is the balancing issue. The more abilities each class has. The harder it gets to balance everything.