There is a solo gearing system though, world content can get us past LfR-level without having to join organized groups, i count “join a group that’s on auto-invite, kill the world boss and get out again” as solo content, since it might as well be.
DF has its faults, but solo progression can take us quite far now.
And that’s one of the many reasons WoW doesn’t have big influx of new players,and the small % that actually try this game for the first time - end up quiting after a month or two.
Im full new WoW player,started the game for the first time with DF.
Currently at 414 ilvl. By the next week i can reach easily 417-418. And after that i need to spam M+20 ,which in the end is useless since you only get 1x 421 item each week.
Im already taking a break after 4/4 M+20s. Only staying subbed atm to try out ret pala rework once it comes - since i main one.
After that I’m unsubbing.
So not only that the game lacks content , it’s heavy rinse and repeat. Each season is like big reset - game is basically closed beta - gear wise at least.
I think that’s a great idea. For raid and dungeons, gearing up over several months is the carrot to keep them playing. But for PvE casuals, the ilvl ceiling is too low so that carrot is gone too quickly. If the devs designed the gearing process so that “typical” casual PvE players could be tied to, say, 10 ilvls behind “typical” M+ / raider that would be good. 10.0.7 adds a bump in ilvl for the causal gear, so I think the devs recognise this is an issue that needs to be worked on (hopefully).
It’s about fun, atm open world stuff gives nothing in progression.
I don’t remember. Usually, the devs separate the difficulties by 13 or 15 ilevels. This corresponds to ~13%-15% power, and they have said that this is the gap necessary for players to feel a sense of a distinct step up. I don’t remember the ilevels I had in 8.3, and the ilevels of Mythic at the time. Ofc, we had corruptions then, which totally messed up any normal concept of power.
But if you were 20 ilevels below Mythic, you were about 5 below Heroic, and that sounds about right for the polycarbonate ceiling between solo and group play.
Today, Heroic averages out at about 405. 390 is 15 below, and you can claw your way to 400. Certainly with crafting, 400 is easy to reach - so that would not be inconsistent with what you recall, especially remembering the last-patch inflation syndrome and how long 8.3 went on compared to 10.0.
And while you might not like the current crafting, and I’m kinda with you on that, it does exist, and we have to consider its effects. As I recall, one of the devs made a statement touting how much good gear casuals could attain by crafting, so that was definitely part of their design.
The devs started DF with daily World Quests, and because of the outrage from the elites that they would feel forced to do such undignified drudgery - even though that was delusional - the devs removed five-sixths of our available weekly end-game. That was pretty egregious. I have a bone to pick with the devs about that.
More importantly, I consider the selection of quests … just bad. I could go into details, but it would raise my blood pressure, and at my age, that’s a thing. 
There are several possible ways they could improvem but they’re not gunna.
8.3 was an oddity, I guess. I did the Visions solo getting gear from the 5 mask ones, which rewarded 470 vs max M+ / Mythic raid which was 475. I filled in the gaps with Conquest PvP gear at 460, so it was possible to get to around 465 as a solo casual if you played Warmode and EBGs. For comparison, in DF the max non-Dungeon / Raid PvE gear is currently 395 and the unrated (i.e. not upgraded) Conquest gear is only 382 in PvE.
Yeah, I think this is very true. The devs do try to put something meaningful in for the causals to do, and as a casual a big part of the fun of any expack depends on how much you enjoy that type of content. In BfA we had Faction Assaults which, via the conquest rewards, allowed me to gear up. I loved the BfA Warmode content, which is why I loved the expack. Then in SL we had all the covenant mini games (cosmetics) and Torghast (legos). Not only were these not much fun for me, but they didn’t reward a set of gear either. In DF we have professions, which get a hard pass from me as it feels like irl work for me and I play WoW as escapism not to extend my working hours!
you can get up to 389 itlv solo now. thats plenty enough for players who dont engage into any chalenging content.
Yes, and that being gone killed alts for me. Gearing isn’t fun, it’s a means to an end to do actual content for the things I want to have/do.
Honestly not even alts, nobody’s gonna take my 391 ilvl main anywhere if i queued with her if not for my friends. If anything it was an accessible catch up and a somewhat fun gearing path if that’s your thing. Options never killed anyone.
Also I don’t remember anyone complaining about too much loot in 8.3. I know I didn’t.
And that’s the difference between a human and an AI. He didn’t explicitly use the word “challenging”, but it is implied.
He said he wanted content where he make “mistakes”, “self improve” and “learn”. These were the keywords he used. This clearly doesn’t mean “ride the raft and take some photos of wildlife” or “teach some frogs manners”.
This is my gearing approach also and the gear I have in DF feels fine for the content I’m doing which is better than in SL where my Covenant gear (upgraded with Anima) was just poor and did not provide adequate power for the Maw.
I do think it’s a little slow though. I’m at 363 and slowly inching up but this week I got 2x Legs and 2x Gloves from the boxes. My neck is still 322 and my shield 340. Will probably have to go do some storms to get a new shield and just cross my fingers for a 395 neck from a World Boss.
They could have some duplicate protection or have these boxes give tokens that allow you to choose an item from a selection (one token does Head, Shoulders, Chest or Legs, another does Hands, Wrist, Belt and boots).
On one hand, you can binarize this.
But I had plenty of fun with Classic and BC.
While I have less fun with WLK and no fun in Retail.
So I think there is a lot more depth to it.
Pacing, difficulty, collectibles involved can make group content both a welcoming place to have fun with people, as well as a place where everyone is stressed out for one reason or another.
Maybe it’s important why people do this. At the endgame, it’s usually farming or trying to beat scores / rating, whereas leveling dungeons are a lot more about having some adventure together, completing some quests and stuff.
Like in WLK, some people run with XP/hour addons and rush like madmen, same about endgame emblem farming. Whereas leveling dungeons are, albeit a bit rare now, relaxed and fun. (Not slow, just a lot less pressure.)
and that’s totally fine. I would rather have this than people trying to change a multiplayer game into a single player one.
so you had more fun in version of game that was basickly wows easy mode.
you can have it on retail too - just stop playing at hc / m0 level. then you will have your tbc slow easy gameplay
Everyone has to understand that without new players, this game becomes a Dad’s Game. Which in a few years means abandoning Mythic raiding, Mythic+, because the then 40-50+ playerbase really won’t be able to participate in those.
To achieve your part, I believe the game has to be welcoming to new players so that they have enough time to bond and get used to group content. Old versions did a good job with that. In this sense, I would argue WoW has devolved.
The problem isn’t the existence or high tier activity, but the neglect of entry tier. Partly because aren’t enough players there, partly because it’s also used by high tier people for rush farming. In Classic, mechanics would hold them back, such as you run out of mana. Players also lose access to dungeons and PvP unless they pay sub2 (sub + pay to keep up).
Quite possibly because over the years it always tried to please the hyper crowd, those who always wanted faster pace, more buttons and more frequently, more mechanics, more everything, to the point where if you aren’t born with pro gaming skills, the game doesn’t offer anything for you. And thus the game kills itself by becoming niche.
When I come home from a day of busy work, tend to my family or else, afterwards I don’t want to stay stressed and keep spinning, nor just fiddle, but something in between.
I am also aware there isn’t really a way back as the most devoted players will absolutely cry out as soon as the game tries to get back to its roots, be it dungeon difficulty during Cataclysm, reduction of spell bloat, reintroduction of resource bars, or anything else.
Would be nice to have a global world across all versions - it scales after all - and just let players play whichever class design they desire.
I am also unsure whether people actually think about WoW as a group game.
For many months now, I have a repeated experience of - ask for a group in chat, nobody cares, people come and solo it at 80 or stuff, then after 30 minutes of spamming, someone from the literal other end of the world comes to help you.
I don’t know what’s better, to create a valid “antisocial” report feature, or just ask Blizzard to rework every group quest in Classic-BC-WLK and retail. Or just man up and
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Why can’t they add Solo rated M+ like mage tower you play your specc solo to get gear with other Npcs and you can get the same ilvl as m+ and solo Rated pvp
Also, with the “Twice a week reset”-thing, for most of the week there are no world quests to do, even if just for some gold or other indirect progression…
So tired of this dumb rhetoric of MMO are supposedly for multiplaying only
Explain leveling then, when you actually get punished by doing group content with less experience gained. Also phasing.
I play WoW mostly solo.
I don’t need the extra HP, the extra stats or the extra damage because I don’t do content that requires it.
However if I played Mithic dungeons, Raids or PVP, that would be a different ball game.
There classes that have fast moving capabilities,like the DH or the Monk.
But what about others that have to stand and cast like Mages or Shadow Priests ?
There’s classes that can intercept twice and heroic leap, like the Warrior. But how about slow moving classes like the DK ?
The main reason I like playing WoW is because I enjoy casual 5 players content, like LFD and TW.
To improve your reflexes there’s better games for it , like Super Mario, Sonic, Street Fighter or Tom Raider for example.
Pressing abilities, like in WoW requires lower skill.
For example, throwing a hadouken vs pressing a fire ball.
In one case you might miss the input depending on how much pressured you are. On the other is a 100% guaranteed Input.
WoW challenge is based in 5, 25 players content. Playing with others, coordinating with others. Not soloing stuff. You already do that since level 1 and there’s a limit on how challenging they can make it, till it hits a limit.
Also if the developers want more people playing group content why would they incentive solo play ?
We had Garrisons during WoD and the results were deserted cities.
Cheers.
well if you want this chilled “dad mode” why dont you just do +5 ? or +7 ?
and why arent you happy with just doing that .
after all you just want to chill and relax.
why do you feel the need to do +20 as “fun and relax” ?