I wonder why honestly, was it purely for an aesthetic reason? Like yaar we are pirates or something like that?
I preferred combat though, outlaw rogue sounds redundant, rogue is already implying an outlaw.
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because its not good for combat now ^^
Cause they forced horrific changes onto an unhealthy but very much enjoyed class and made it something only so few can enjoy now.
5 Likes
Unhealthy?
In what sense?
The class literally mowed players down in PvP for very basic mistakes and its method of bursting was based on maintaining a buff and waiting for it to upgrade from 10% to 30% before popping your âburstâ and pressing all your big buttons, other than that it doesnât play terribly different from outlaw minus rolling the buffs which used to be core iirc.
What do you mean mowed players down for very basic mistakes?
I do remember insight buff, which is what you mentioned there.
Combat was my all-time favorite spec in the entire the game, and I think I was not the only one who enjoyed it that much.
But at the start of legion blizzard was like: I know whatâs best for my players. And so they reworked the most predictable, RNG free spec into this lottery machine. At this point I only exist to spite blizz for that rework.
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Blizz felt it didnât have enough niche and unique âclass fantasyâ, which I mean isnât bad in itself, the thing is they started making radical changes for the the sake of radical changes in their new approach to class design and well they didnât handle it.
Designing class fantasy is fine, itâs like playing piano and it can be great, but the problem is, Blizzard uses a hammer rather than fingers, to play the said piano, so yeah.
3 Likes
I think the odd thing was, Combat was renamed Outlaw, while we still have more than one Restoration and Protection spec in the game. Iâm not saying âcombatâ wasnât a boring and generic name (since this game revolves around combat), but Prot and Resto are just as generic, and more used.
Indeed, outlaw rogue came in the same wave of class changes that changed many other classes such as survival hunters turned melee specc, not trap/poison range specc.
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Original roll the bones is an example of bad rng in my opinion.
There are different types of rng, but in short, the good and the bad, the good type of rng is the one that makes your rotation more fun, less static in short, you aren;t always pressing buttons in a certain way, and you still feel like you are in control of the spec, then there is unmitigated rng, the bad one, and original roll the bones is in this category, because if you didn;t have at least 2 buffs it felt really bad.
This is actually a general idea, rng can be good , but there must be a mitigating factor that doesnât allow rng to dictate everything. Otherwise it feels like you have no control.
A good type of rng i think is like the stormstrike proc, the demonic appetite, those things that can enhance your rotation, or outside of spec gameplay, if you had for example, titanforging, but at the same time you had valor to upgrade gear, this way not getting a titanforged piece of loot wouldnât feel nearly as bad. Because there is a mitigating factor.
Anyway, in my opinion one of the best things they added was curse of the dreadblades, that in my opinion was a super fun ability.
2 Likes
Because of many reasons. Firstly its origins was simply the name of the talent tree formed around weapon mastery stuff before spec identity was a thing when no class was a âsomething specâ class. Later when given a identity as a spec combat was intended to be themed around a light armoured skirmisher style dualist, covering a theme of anything from outlaws, pirates or what ever could fit into that box
Then eventually they moved to outlaw , likely because the spec felt a little short on a real theme while already leaning towards that idea to begin with, the spec also had issues as combat that some of its abilities were not very fitting to that concept , shadow step certainly didnât feel very pirate style as a mention.
In pvp just before it got redesigned combat was actually a really frustrating mess, it spent expansions ether being useless or being a very overwhelming melee that pumped consistently without needing the resets that sub or assa needed to do well, can honestly say combat in some expansions was very boring and frustrating to play against because it was a âtunnel visionâ spec that as mentioned earlier- just kept hitting until they got all their bonuses then burst while spamming sinister strike and bullying whom ever was easiest to sit on all game
PvE I canât comment i never played combat in pve
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Combat was my favorite spe too alongside old Sub Rogue.
I can handle the gun gameplay, I actually enjoy this, the feeling could be better, example, boost our gun on exec phase, fire damages, idk. Actually, you didnât use it a lot, It should be a more major thing to use than just press it when itâs shiny or too far to hit.
But the fact they reworked Combat into a casino gameplay is unbearable.
Sometimes you are like pressing SS for 2 minutes and you have 0 second strikes, and you constantly roll bad buffs (who the F think every buff are balanced ? Grand Melee is a joke at this point). Itâs so boring. I want to control my spe, not spectate whatâs happening.
The spe is only fun when you got a lot of procs from SS and get goods buffs/5 buffs. Otherwise, itâs garbage to play. Lot of time I dropped my Rogue because Outlaw kill me the pleasure to play.
Since RtB and 5 buffs potential exist, Outlaw is a nightmare to balance. Too strong or too bad. Just rework the spe like Old Combat but keep the Gun could be really interesting.
Also, give us a real mastery and a real offensive buff (AR doesnât feel good at this).
1 Like
It was changed because âcombatâ is kinda nondescript. Every spec is about combat. Back when talent trees were thought up, naming one of the specs âcombatâ did make sense since the other two trees werenât necessarily about that. Technically all three specs were about combat back then too. But there was a bit more nuance than that.
Subtlety was about improving stealth and making you more slippery.
Assassination was about improving burst damage and poisons to well, assasinate things. Get in and get out.
Combat was about general combat. It focused more on builders and defense to make you better at going toe to toe with mobs. No gimmicks or underhanded tactics here.
3 Likes
If Iâm entirely honest, Iâm not sure if Subtlety is âsubtleâ at all, given it uses things like explosives (black powder) and finishing moves to perform deadly finishers; wouldnât Assassination fit better? Always seemed kind of weird, but not a deal breaker to me.
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Itâs not any longer, thatâs for sure. But it used to be. At some point the roles of Assassination and Subtlety switched. I wanna say it was in Cata. Sub became the burst spec and Assassination started focusing on bleeds, which was previously Subtletyâs forte.
Edit: Back in the days when spell and abilities were sorted by spec, finishers were all classified as Assassination abilities. Today, finishers is what Sub is all about. Itâs even their mastery.
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Also because it enforced a particular theme onto a spec which, if anything, already had a niche (if a wide ranging one)- nimble fighter as capable of stealth as going toe to toe with their opponents.
Before a combat rogue couldâve been anything, and in Legion it became a literal sewer pirate. *
And personally? I never, ever want to be that on my rogue. Like, quite literally, half of the reason I play rogue is that itâs the closest thing I can get to a warden. You know, someone who keeps laws, not someone whoâs literally defined by breaking them.
And quite frankly, I donât think Iâm the only one who doesnât want their rogue to be a criminal- and now thereâs no âAgile toe to toe classâ that fits the role.
(*A sort of similar thing happened to disc priest, going from âholyâ to "half shadow priest. Someone really shouldâve told Blizzard that you DO NOT CHANGE A SPECâS FANTASY without upsetting people who play that spec.)
I miss MOP Combat Rogue. At least, you had a real burst CD.
We had one with curse of the dreadblades, it was also really cool, but then blizzard decided to have the genius idea of removing artifacts in favor of azerite, and now covenants, like, what a fail.
I know iâm repeating myself, but honestly, i just wish they improved artifacts.
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Combat was a cheap copy of fury warrior. Outlaw is better.