So far we know, all nathrezims were from Revendreth made by Denatrius, and again we see Lothraxion involved into our storyline as one of the leaders of army of the light, yet he did not informed us about anything about his kin.
So, why we are pretending he isn’t a traitor?
If we suppose he knew of his original heritage and ties to the Plane of Death—or indeed that of all nathrezim—how does omitting that detail make him a traitor, exactly? Denathrius is an Eternal One and isn’t nor wasn’t inherently an enemy, first of all. Not even to the rest of the pantheon. He became one through his cooperation with Zovaal.
— “Well met, I am Lothraxion. You’ve met my kin before, I reckon. Many of us were in service to the Burning Legion. I regret my demonic past and have found salvation in the Light. Also, while our origins have been shrouded for millennia I can tell you that we originate from a member of the Pantheon of Death—yes, the equivalent to your Titans known as the Eternal Ones but in the Shadowlands—called Sire Denathrius. This means nothing to you right now, but your kids are gonna love him as a raid boss.”
And to this we’d … raise our pitchforks and scream “Traitor!”?
Pursuing the false claim for Nathreza and zero knowledge about Nathrezim true background taking in count that there are Jailer and Denathrius in the big game too with own goals for Azeroth.
He, as any other dreadlord know that very well, so far as this is his own words in midnight intro:
For a time, I fought alongside my kind in the Burning Legion. I followed the orders of our true, deathly master and dutifully sent them my reports. We cared for nothing but the void’s destruction, even at the cost of the worlds.
So how could we know that he will not going to betray us when Denathrius will return?
Lothraxion having ulterior motives have been a common thread since his introduction in Legion. With the nathrezim being renowned for infiltration and subversion, that has always been a natural counter point to putting any sort of trust in him. To which—if he were to switch allegiances—by all means that’d be traitorous.
But how or why would omitting the details about the Shadowlands make him a traitor?
That’s what I’m asking.
Does it matter how or why he destroyed countless worlds prior to finding the Light?
All I am saying is, he should be a ‘traitor’ - his true loyalties lie with Denathrius. And while Denathrius worked for the Jailer, he felt like a shifty foot with his own schemes.
That makes them interesting characters.
And I dont know if anyone is pretending Lothraxxion is a good boy. Certainly, didn’t hear.
Before you can make me buy (or care about) his alligeance, you should make me buy his character. As he is, he is just the most special of the special snowflakes with their inplausible backstories that most GMs wouldn’t buy from their players. But even those backstories can be fine, if we were there, either in the game at their side, or through another medium like a novel, living through the story. We weren’t, though. And no, backfilling it later won’t work the same, because we are supposed to be invested now. So right now we are asked to fill in the blanks ourselves to make it plausible that he isn’t under permanent observation and suspicion. I don’t really care to do that for a character that has little to no distinguishing features that I actually know of.
But well, it’s Warcraft. This isn’t the first and not the last time we are asked to equate a unique exterior with an interesting character, and being cynical about it, like I am, isn’t likely to make it more fun.
Because putting on blinders and leaning back for the ride is the best (Well, least bad) way to enjoy WoW’s story.
but…but…i fell in love with wow literally because bunch of lore videos and threads…
Okay, let me soften that initial statement a bit, sometimes the story hinges on people doing some really dumb things, and not being appropriately suspicious of a Dreadlord is one of those things, try not to think too hard about it.
Personally, I want Lothraxion to truly be possessed by the Light. The Nathrezim have completely taken over Disorder, pulled the strings of the Order and have actually done a decent job infiltrating Void. If they succeeded in every tasks, it would be boring. I want Lothriaxon to truly believe in the path of the Ligh or just underestimated it. And about Nature, they only give this ‘spy’ false hope, when actually recognized Denathrius charade from the start. At this moment three out of five missions were successful. This is great score. But even Dreadlords shouldn’t be perfect at spying.
Finally someone who agrees that the glowing nathrezim, the guys who are all about deceit, lies and gaslighting, is a problem that has yet to happen.
We dont even know which blanks to fill. Apparently Blizzard have started to retcon parts of SL via the new Chronicles and K’reesh. And dont get me wrong thats a good thing, but still.
This one sentence alone hits incredibly deep. And applies to… just about anything in a story.
I needed quite a lot of convincing to even care about the Light Nathrezim. I won’t lie, nearly all of that care is composed of potentials, theories and possibilities. Nothing Blizzard had really put any work on themselves apart from putting the lackluster-informed character itself.
As does the mindset of being open to a story or experience.
Which I would argue there are a lot on this forum that aren’t.
I wouldn’t paint with broad strokes. There are a lot of reasons as to why players feel jaded or uncaring of the story right now and to consider them all close-minded is a reason why these stories continue to hit and miss.
Personally, I am of the mindset that a story should always have the goal to be compelling and with the goal intention to hook the interest of its intended audience, not rely on the expectation that they will be open to it no matter what.
Absolutely.
Yet my point is that there are arguably plenty of intrigues and aspects of the story in and related to World of Warcraft that are compelling, that are interesting. But they aren’t given even a second of consideration by far too many because they only have one setting or mode their headspace can be in, some of which I consider present in this thread.
I mention it specifically because I consider it important in regards to this specific thread and topic.
For me, among the current lore? I don’t really think so. Plenty of things that could be compelling to me, if done right. But also enough prior experience to not expect them to do what I would see as right by them. There are also things where I can see , or at least imagine, why they could be compelling to others, of course. But these are very different from things I found compelling about Warcraft before. So yeah, you won’t find an unbiased voice in me, and I’m not the only one.
Now on Lothraxion… the last time he had any relevance was years ago. The next thing we heard that might be related to him was that there was a Nathrezim spy among the forces of the Light, back in Shadowlands. Also some years ago by now. Now he is just there again. We haven’t seen anything about how the issue was addressed by his Brothers in Arms. So is it really surprising that some people find it strange not to see any results from the Shadowlands revelation? That’s what happens when you actually do try to take what is happening seriously. They laid out Chekov’s Gun. You can’t be surprised people are waiting for it to be fired. Those that still care, that is.
And this is my point.
Among at least a hundred small stories, minor questlines, one or two campaign quests in a zone, short character interactions in the game across an entire expansion … never, not even once, you sit back and you’re like:
“Huh! That was a neat.”
There’s not a single story [main, side or otherwise] in the whole game that holds a modicum of interest?
I ask this, more or less knowing that there’s at least a handful.
That is my point. This supposedly dogmatic idea that there’s absolutely nothing among tens of thousands of words of writing is ever so tiring. Because I’d posit … of course there is.
I completely understand and respect being able to pick at the overarching decisions, the tone or themes explored in this game as of late. As someone that is enjoying them, I have no problem seeing how frustrating it’d be if I didn’t.
What I won’t understand is the suggestion that N-O-T-H-I-N-G in the entire game is even slightly interesting or compelling; nowhere is there anything, regardless of what—a quest, a design, a character or theme explored—that even slightly justifies paying a dime for this then supposed garbage?
Not a single character is fun? Has a cool voice actor or a voice actor doing a mighty fine job? It’s all mouth’s down, brows furrowed, arms crossed as soon as the game is booted up?
Edit: To which I’m saying, that is a choice.
Whether conscious or not, on some level, anyone finding themselves in that situation has made a choice not to be pulled into any part of the world or story in any way, shape or form. And I’m not trying to say it’s not in their purview for anyone making such a choice, either. Regardless of whether it is a conscious or not. Of course it is.
But I am saying that I consider the notion nothing short of childish.
Oh, interest is there, absolutely. I’m still here, aren’t I? Appreciation for the story or being compelled by its character stories is another thing, though. It’s rather more “there are some nice ideas here, how will they muck it up for me this time?” than being drawn in by now for me. I have a hard time thinking of more or less recent stories where I do think they played it cleanly to the end and the story wasn’t too trivial to care for. And I’m specifically talking about the story, not its presentation.
You are aware that we are talking about a 21 year old game with a 30 year old story though, aren’t you? I have been invested and have been disappointed many times here. At some point I prefer to get my enjoyment of the story I am consuming anyways through shared mockery rather than engagement, and yes, I’d need to see big changes in the game to change that approach. As a choice that seems quite rational from where I am standing. Disappointment is no fun. Mockery can be, especially with people who understand where you are coming from. But well, I guess I’ll take your accusation of childishness… and extend it to anyone giving Warcraft’s story enough headspace to post about it online. This isn’t an especially mature hobby, it’s just ours.
Because the only “evidence” we’ve got is a book in Shadowlands that we found. We didn’t even bring that book to any notable NPC, so you could make a case that it’s just not considered “common knowledge”.
And yes, storywise it doesn’t make sense for a document that important not to be handed to the people in charge, but… don’t forget, Shadowlands was the expansion where nobody even thought to ask the Eternal Ones about the true identity of the Jailer, neither did they tell us anything about him before they sent us down into literal hell. The Primus, the greatest tactician in existence, just remembered to tell us about Zovaal’s true identity and history bascially 5 minutes before the grande finale.
So I guess it’s a wink to the players, we can watch Lothraxion in Midnight and wait for Chekhov’s gun to unload, after all, the expansion is considered the 2nd act of the World Soul Saga.