What makes a game like this good is having depth. Depth in customizing, depth in knowledge. Having only 1 (one) build per spec will fix the issue you point out in the OP with people having the wrong talents, but it will remove the depth of the game. To compesnate, WoW will have to double down on longer, more complex rotations, faster and more intricate gameplay (which is not always good btw, as some people simply can’t keep up), more abstract dungeons and bosses that require more extensive learning.
Live service games need depth that gets players invested in them. This manifests in many different ways - from learning the map in R6: Siege or Warzone, learning good killspots, to learning the talent trees in WoW and knowing what you need for each situation. Hell, within WoW’s modern raiding scene, you are expected to change builds between bosses (which is awful in Shadowlands if you want to change covenant build). Raids test most players’ deep knowledge of the game.
And here’s the best part - those who just want to play the actiony bits can look up a guide and not bother at all.
There are literally no downsides to having a talent system over borrowed power.
thats my point. there is no customizing in wow. you choose class, then you choose spec, and you go from there.
some classes are simpler, and tend to be weaker, while other are more complex, and tend to be stronger. that is if you can actually do the rotation right.
this is a system that exist in most fantasy games, and it works great.
i personally dont mind borrowed powers, simply because i dont farm them. i dont think they were ever meant to be farmed. just acquired by simply playing the game.
talent tree is simply a complex system that at max level, wont change a thing beaus the majority of players will go to the guides. including casuals.
im certain there are players out there who dont care and play with people who dont care, but most player care or want to have more options.
lets say your friends arent online and you feel like raiding. you go to the custom and find a group.
now the group leader will look at your talents and decide if you are eligible. with your friends, you can go in without talents, but with other people, you need output the best possible.
So I read, I’ll have a better sense when we see some classes I’m more familiar with, and more developed trees. But if they’re doing a pruning (hiss! boo!), they’re doing a pruning, and not because of the talent trees.
I’m fine with having the talent tree back. It just means I’ll have to spend a bit more time looking at Wowhead before I ‘decide’ which talents to pick. As for borrowed power… that’s baked in now. It will just have a new name.
No, they actually acknowledged that the player base were fed up with the borrowed power systems which needed work to be put into them and announced their complete removal (with the exception of Tier sets), which is why they have gone back to have in-depth talent trees.
i remember it, because it made me excited for a wow content for a first time in a long time. it only increased my disappointment when i saw the final product.
I do remember it. It was the big feature during the summer, and all teh streamers on Alpha were saying how wonderful it was - though i think they did have a limit of 75 floors at the time.
Here is the thing, the way they presented in the Blizzcon it sounded like we will have a lot of flexibility with switching, so it doesn’t really matter. The previous problem we had with the talents trees in classic was that it was hard to switch build, this time around I see no reason for someone doing a meta build for pushing content and then switching to something more fun or experimental for chill runs or messing around in the open world.
People who are condemning the talent trees from now either do not understand how this iteration of them will work or are purposefully trying to be controversial.
EDIT The potential problem we might have in regards to gameplay will be because of class design and not because of the talent trees, but it’s to early to say as of now. Only putting this here because we all know that if we end up in the situation of bad gameplay and DF ends up sucking, people like OP will come here and start saying stuff like “See I told you talents trees are bad”. They aren’t but if the class design is poor it doesn’t matter if you have a talent tree or a talent grid your class sucks at the end of the day all the same.
if the new talent tree are tied to the power of the characters like the old talent trees, expect extreme difference in performance, unless you go “by the books”.
which is my main point. complex system is just a hassle, when the end result is pretty much the same.
for example, right now, as a monk, with the current system, i can change talents quickly at any time to play different styles with different skills. but when i go inside the raid or dungeon, there is only one thing that is worth taking. (with me, i do the serenity in every content because i never was able to master the split spirit thing)
The end result will be the same if you are referring purely to “will people be playing the meta build”. Everyone knows that the majority will be using the meta build, covenants already proved that.
The key differences are:
-Getting a new level will feel more exciting and you will have the choice of what actually you get as opposed to now where X level is assigned to Y ability. Maybe you want your interrupt at level 12 as opposed to level 17 or maybe you do not want to have an AoE ability at level 22… With talents being like this the player has agency.
-You will be able to create and save multiple builds, while the game/community will require from you to be optimal you will have a easier way to switch from optimal to suboptimal if you wish to.
-From a developer standpoint it is easier to expand upon a skill tree with minor upgrades each expansion that it is on a grid that offers major performance boosts or to develop an overly convoluted system that will get scrapped once it’s 2 years are up.
And you will be able to do it even faster with the new system… It will literally be a one click thing once you set up your talent page/s once.
