right now i have 6 rows to choose from, each row with 3 choices. they are the same for all specs (if i remember correctly) and the game remembers it, even if you change spec.
are you telling me a talent tree with made of 40 points or whatever it is, is faster than 6 clicks ? both end result is pretty much the same
No they arenât, only the utility row is the same across specs (and not in all cases) and I am questioning if you are even playing the game after that statement.
You will have 61 points to put into your talent trees, once you put them in you will be able to save them and then create a new page with different talent choices, once you save those aswell you will be able to switch between them like you are switching specs. Right now the game remembers 1 build per spec, with this system the game will remember multiple builds per spec.
How is that different from todays leveling?
5 levels to be able to pick one of 3 choices, several of the rows donât really change much and are barely noticable.
And you just get abilities and upgrades to abilities every few levels that you often miss because they are minor upgrades.
With the new talent tree you actually have something to work towards while leveling.
Talent points were one of the fun things while leveling back in the day because you decided how your character grew.
I havenât been told to change my talents, only to change my spec because my current spec was badly tuned due to blizzards inability to listen to feedback.
But when it comes to my talents I like to theorycraft and test my own builds.
Occasionally another warrior would comment on my talents and say i should this over this etc but it stops after they see my performance.
Copying a top-sim build from a guide or a pro players build is not gonna the same level of performance if it doesnt fit your playstyle.
But naturally with a talent tree like this it is possible to make an awful build by picking a bunch of talents that have no synergy. But that is also possible today by picking the wrong legendary, covenant, soulbind, conduits and talents.
Iâd say its easier to do something wrong today due to our powers being spread over different systems making class guides a must due to how hard it is to experiment with builds in shadowlands.
Legendaries are expensive and you need to unlock them and gather resources to craft them. And while we can more easily swap covenants now and level them up faster this wasnât the case in the earlier patches. And we had conduit energy so you had to wait if you swapped them a lot to try new builds.
In dragonflight you will be able to see your entire build in one window.
Swap around points and save several different builds so you can easy and quickly swap to different builds depending on what content you are doing.
At worst this new talent system wont change anything.
At best it will allow for several different viable builds and playstyles for the same content aswell as different content.
To play devilâs advocate here, you are not being told that now because everyone just assumes you are using the optimal thing, again same thing happened with covenants, everyone just assumed I picked the correct one so they didnât really bother me with interrogation but once they saw me using my beautiful red orb of -133 dmg(venthyr warlock ability) those same people started complaining and/or asking why am I not NF.
But again that is besides the point why does it matter if a group demands you to be optimal if being optimal is just 1-2 clicks away. I mean is it so off the board to switch to better build for a dungeon run and then switch back to your normal thing? I really donât get the whole complaint about the meta if switching is easy.
Also
This is a great argument and I hope it turns out that way.
now that im thinking about it, yeah it changes. i guess i was confused, but it doesnt change the argument at all. there are very few choices out there right now, and there is no need for 61 points. and when i say choices, i mean only 1 choice for a certain situation.
Yes and? There will always be a superior build, whats your point. People donât want talent trees because it will kill the meta, they want them because it gives them choices and when compared tobthe talend grid it also gives them more room for experimentation. Even WF raiders do wacky sub optimal builds for fun you know. Also Rextroy pretty much made a career out of doing a troll build and breaking the game with it.
So far you have not given 1 valid argument other than âI have to click 61 points and Iâm lazyâ for why the talent trees are bad.
Yeah, that is true.
They canât really see most of my build in shadowlands since its not showing in talents. They will only see it later during combat.
Being the right covenant was a huge deal due to how much of player power is tied to it.
Some abilities were just so powerful it was bis for all types of content, and some soulbinds were also way ahead of the other two.
And it didnt help that you were locked.
So that probably plays a role there.
but I dont think it will change much since a few misplaced talent points is not gonna have the same impact as choosing the wrong covenant.
People will most likely just check if you have the necessary abilities like interrupt if you are doing pvp or m+, or party cd for raids.
If the performance is good enough and you are pulling your weight, people rarely say anything from my experience.
But as you said, with how easy its gonna be to change the talents it really isnât an issue 
I wouldnât rule out for a group to ask for switching to some more survivability talents to make up for a lower geared healer in a dungeon.
Man I am so excited to see the warrior build and to start making different builds for every type of encounter 
Not entirely sure what you mean by that as I donât raid, but I believed the article mentioned that party buffs (mark of the wild/power word fortitude/arcane intellect) and battle rez are gonna be baseline abilities. I assume bloodlust will also be baseline considering how they phrased it:
Nonstacking group buffs or spells, where a group virtually always wants exactly one person with the ability (Raise Ally, Rebirth, Mark of the Wild).
How is this any different from picking the wrong ability and getting kicked from raids?
Spoiler: Itâs not.
Itâs actually rather simple.
Which they do now as well to check which abilities are the best to use and what their rotation is supposed to be.
Literally nothing changes.
Itâs literally not cosmetics.
Leveling up takes like 20 minutes, whatâs your point?
Unlike being told to change your rotation or your abilities you currently use âbecause of lacking performanceâ.
Yes. totally different.
O wait no itâs not.
People who use guides will always use guides.
If you want to play meta then play meta.
Nobody is stopping you from doing that.
Use the wrong abilities in the current talent system, I dare you. See what happens.
Spoiler #2: Youâll be told to change them.
i have a hard time processing this
i agree, just give us every thing and let us play and use the spells we want.
I guess its there to add a timesink, time spent on respec etc etc,maybe some golds to sink in as well, i dont know how it works out, but i know its there to hold you back in some way or form.
I donât have toxic friends like that. They allow me to play what I want if we reach our goals.
Youâre projecting.
Those are YOUR feelings. You donât know if the majority has those same feelings.
No. This is good , remastered vanilla talent system. I like it a lot personally
Am pretty certain that after all this time Blizz mightve figured out viable decision within the trees~
If not - guess weâll remove em again after DF 
I meant for example Rallying cry, Anti-magic zone or Darkness
Defensive abilities that affect the whole group.
In the death knight tree AMZ is in the middle of the class tree in the blood path.
If there is no tank DK there might be scenarios during progression where a dk needs to move some points to acquire it to deal with a dangerous raid mechanic.
Tier sets are borrowed power and always have been. The definition of borrowed power is a benefit you gain from systems that are only present in that expansion. The borrowed power goes away with the next expansion launch, either by being actively removed or disappearing as gear is upgraded. It has to because we need to feel more powerful as each expansion goes on in order to feel like weâre making progress, but we canât go on gaining more and more power systems forever. Anyone who thinks weaknesses in specs arenât going to continue to be compensated for by borrowed power is deluding themselves.
Any kind of Talent Tree is a bad idea. Just give COMPLETE Classes and specs that have LOTS OF PASSIVES AND LOTS OF ABILITIES TO PRESS.
How fooking hard is it to grasp⌠They got all data from 2004 to this day and abilites where to pick from.
While tier sets and trinkets are borrowed power, they are not borrowed power systems like covenant, azerite and artifacts.
Sets and trinkets gets replaced naturally when a better option comes along.
Borrowed power systems do not, they get ripped from you leaving you feeling incredibly weak as you start to slowly progress in the new borrowed system.
And now that they are not doing borrowed power they can instead focus on class design so we can see the classes grow.
We might not get much class growth in dragonflight but im excited to see how they can build upon the system in the next expansions.
Doesnât matter. They have always been part of the game. Itâs part of the games core. It was more disruptive to remove them than it was to have them there.
The other borrowed power systems just broke the game.
Itâs not a debate on whether T-Sets are âborrowed powerâ or not. Itâs about taking the game out of a horrible system based messed and close to itâs roots.