I am pretty sure a lot of classes will feel very ripped off when the tier sets will be removed. Example Blood DK. Tiersets are very borrowed power.
And there are classes that got changes in their basic abilties because of the current tier sets.
Iâm sure it will feel bad losing it, which is why itâs in the new talent tree for blood.
But in terms of power itâs not gonna be close to when they lose their conduits, soulbinds and covenant ability.
It is the whole package of the class of course.
I am seeing tier sets more as borrowed power than conduits, soulbinds and covenant. You basically keep them for a whole expansion and never change them. Tier sets are actively changing classes, and some are even make or break, on a seasonal basis. They are imo the big nr 1 example of borrowed power.
Iâm sorry putting points into buttons is too difficult for you.
They canât please everyone. I hated the old inflexible trees. I guess this is a kind of compromise with the flexibility to change with different builds.
Weâve not tried this new system yet but I like the way our current system works. It would have been nicer if theyâd added a row or two but they have gone the borrowed power route and people are sick of that.
Some people like to have hybrid builds and they now have the freedom to experiment again. They donât care about what is meta or bis. Blizzard feel this is a core part of an RPG game.
I do worry some very basic abilities are going to be locked into the tree that will make the compulsory to talent into. Time will tell. Weâve only had two trees so far and itâs early days of feedback.
I donât doubt that I will go with whatever the âcookie cutterâ build is for the various content because I just want what is optimal.
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We saw changes to the borrowed power systems in both BFA and shadowlands.
In BFA we got an additional outer ring and later got essences.
In shadowlands soulbinds got additional rows and we got new legendaries.
These also shifted the power of some specs, some had to switch covenants and some azerite traits became more powerful when being able to stack them etc.
They do this to keep the specs feeling fresh.
It probably has proâs and conâs. I need to play around with it to have a good oppinion about it. But i guess it will be the same as everything else before. Click on them and forget (till the system changes).
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Then i probably played the wrong specs 
While the idea of talent trees returning is a welcome one, I cant say im impressed with the implementation so far as it seems to me they are ripping baseline skills from some classes and giving you them back in the form of a talent to give you the illusion of gaining something, where as infact you lost it only to have to spend to regain it.
Talents are a big part of mmoâs i feel like. Itâs part of building your char. Thought i partly agree, that some will go and look at sites. But people will also experiment. Have in mind, that the developers doesnât seem to play the game. What they think might be good, turns out not to be so good. People build in a way, that the developers never thought of. Which also becomes a problem, when it comes to balance
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My concern is that they are only giving us an illusion of choice and not changing much at all, everything we have atm stats/ability wise will be stripped from us in pre patch and given back to us in the form of the talent tree making it feel like blizz did a good thing when infact they never changed anything but made you weaker on purpose to put you back at the power you are now.
I am just concerned with Blizzâs low effort corner cutting stratagies of late and how people are willing to just look over it as if its a good thing.
Firstly not everyone raid or PVPs at a high level.
These talent trees gives the rest of us the opportunity to play around with different builds.
Sure Mythic raiding, M+ (high keys), PVP (high rating) will likely have fewer (or maybe only one) viable builds. But 80% of the game will have multiple viable builds allowing for varying playstyles.
Alts wonât need to grind up AP, Conduits, Azerite gear with specif Traits, Essenses, Legendaries etc.
Level an alt to Max Level and build your talent tree and get whatever gear you can and go.
But the biggest benefit from the new trees wonât be in 10.0, it will be in 11.0 when we wonât lose all the points weâve put into the tree since 10.0 like we did with Artifacts. Legion legendaries, Azerite Traits, Corruptions, Essenses, Covenant abilities, SL Legendaries, Soulbinds and conduits.
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sets and tieris are NOT borrowed powers.
according to your description, every item with âequippedâ or âon useâ is considered borrowed power.
borrowed power is a buff that comes with an expansion and is tied to it, lorewise. these are usually get stronger when you collect something.
tier sets and trinkets are just items with a bonus.
same thing with âtimegatingâ, people think everything that isnt possible to finish on launch is timegated. its ridiculous.
MOP and WOD had the current talent system, but simpler (no extra for pvp), and there were no borrowed powers or anything else.
that idea that these are tied to eachother is ridiculous.
I agree taking away basics and making them talents is not really a good concept. Certain things should just be baseline for all.
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have you ever used the custom group finder ?
Yes. I try not to though.
But⌠Whatâs your point?
I want talent trees though, so now itâs 1 vs 1
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BFA had an AP grind for Neck, Azerite Traits on the gear, Essenses (with ranks), Corruptions, Cloak (with its questline to acquire and grind to upgrade) to mitigate the corruptions and what not.
All of which were taken away in Shadowland (so they were borrowed for BFA only).
urmâŚ
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oops. meant WOD.
fixed.
Arenât they? Itâs something that give or changes an ability of your character that you donât have access to unless its equipped.
They are limited by ilvl so they are designed to be temporary buffs.
Item sets, trinkets and legendaries that give an effect are temporary powers.
Those are borrowed power systems.
There is a difference between borrowed power items and borrowed power systems but both are still borrowed power.
If a patch releases but the content is unlocked in part with the weekly reset so at release you can only do one part first week, the next after reset and the third the reset after that but during the 4th week you could do part 1-3 in one day it is timegated.
A lot is timegated, if you play on release you need to wait a certain time to finish the story, start 4 weeks after release and you can go through it in one sitting.
However is something would require a long grind to finish its not timegated since there is no gate that stops you from progressing further, its just time consuming.