Why wold buffs will hurt end game in SoD

With the news of DM buffs no longer being dispellable in phase 4 I kind of lost all hope for world buffs to stop being a thing in SoD end game PvE. So with this post I wanted to share some of my thoughts and theories of why I think world buffs are hurting the overall gameplay for end game raiding, no matter the level. Note that I take no issue towards WB’s as a whole within the game and definitely see a fun and somewhat gimmicky aspect of stacking them for PvP or w/e have you.

Let’s start with the positives, because I do think that there are some from experience.

+ High risk, high reward.
Back in WoW Classic (or even vanilla) we didn’t have access to the chronoboon. This made gathering WB’s a dopamine fuelled part of the game that actually took a lot of team effort in order to get them fast and safe. This is why I actually do think WB’s are more fun without the chronoboon because of the community it created for summoning, clearing and gathering buffs around the world. However, the biggest downside of not having the chronoboon is of course the fact that your character basically becomes unplayable once you have started the quest of gathering WB’s.

+ Big numbers are fun for everyone.
Let’s face it, most of us play this game for character progression, but we are per default lazy. Having access to a shortcut via WB’s can make even the worst player feel powerful for 1-2 hours with little to no effort in comparison to how long it would take to gain that power via gear. Sounds fun for sure, but at the same time it kind of diminishes the value of new gear because of how little that matters to your characters overall power.

And now, the negatives;

- Class scaling in PvE becomes harder.
WB’s scaling different with all classes is old news and was confirmed when Blizzard implemented a warrior shout to soften the blow of losing them, simply because of how big a part they play on some classes damage. So why not just balance classes better and remove them? Removing WB’s will in my opinion create an easier game to balance, tier to tier. And imagine if the meta could scale on items and/or set bonuses (like arcane mage with tier 5) instead of just what class scales best with crit and base stats. Heck, even support classes could be a thing of the meta in order to make up for the “loss” of WB’s. In short, I don’t think anyone wants to see the world first Naxx in SoD consisting for 14 warriors, or 14 of any other class for that matter.

- Forced and tedious chore that stacks up with more raids and alts.
Almost every PUG in the game, at least on my server is demanding WB’s in order to be able to join. And this is for a “level up raid” at the end of its phase with WB’s that have way less impact then in 60. This means that unless you are part of a guild that actively don’t care about performance you will have to gather the majority of all the WB’s before every single raid. Add to this that Blizzard are trying to keep SoD alt friendly, meaning you might have to gather all WB’s 4-6 times a week when BWL and AQ is released, and you start wiping on more than one character. Let’s say you pay for summons and scan discord channels for WB drops you could possibly gather them all in a 30 min timeframe of active playtime. That’s 2-3 hours a week just to be able to join a raid, which means that most casual players will have to dedicate 1-2 evenings to just gather WB’s in order to able to play for 1-2 other evenings, which no one can argue is fun.

- Neglects skill.
WB’s power creep is fun for everyone yes, but because of how big an impact they have on your damage even a bad player with somewhat decent gear, stacked consumables and WB’s will be able to press good. Removing WB’s makes player skill more noticeable because of how much more itemization and rotation will matter for your overall damage.

- Makes end game content to easy, to fast.
Raids will always have to be tuned and balanced around a raid without WB’s unless Blizzard want’s to make a new “few attempts / week” kind of boss (this would be neglected by players just spam getting WB’s anyway so don’t try this!). What this means is that as soon as you are able to kill the last boss without a wipe you are going to breeze through that raid like it’s nothing for the rest of SoD. I remember raiding back in vanilla and the awesome felling of going back to say MC after a few progress nights in AQ40. You realized how long your guild had made it thinking back to all those wipes in MC and now you just crushed it like a bug. Way more fun and rewarding then being able to do the same thing two weeks after the raid is released.

- Creates larger gaps between the casual and the normal to hard core raid groups.
Because of the point above there will always be a huge difference between guilds that can clear a raid without a single wipe and guilds that still wipe a few times here and there, or even just have some players dying during every encounter. Being able to wipe, reset with consumables and still have the same chance of doing a good kill is way more fun than a tedious raid that follows a wipe and losing WB’s. This will also mean that people might actually stay longer in a guild that struggles because their personal performance wouldn’t suffer that much from the occasional wipe here and there. Not to mention the self-proclaimed elitists that semi afk once WB’s are gone because “now it’s just not worth trying anymore”.

- SoD can’t be compared to other versions of the game, so why not change this aswell?
Speed runs in Naxx aren’t going to compare themselves between SoD and Classic because it’s already two different games with runes alone, let alone the 20.vs.40 man raids. So WB’s or not it’s still not the same game, hence there’s no reason to keep them just because “they used to be in the game”. Further more all the min/maxers might think this will hurt their experience, but like I said before, this will make parsing harder because a bigger portion of your performance will be from itemization and skill compared to just WB’s.

TL:DR
World Buffs don’t add anything positive to end game raiding in SoD because of all the changes that are already in place, neither to hard core nor casual players. Indirectly forcing every active raiding player to run around the world for 30-60 min before every raid, on every character isn’t going to help the community stay strong for the entirety of SoD. And let’s face it, is probably the biggest reason for all the negative feedback on the biweekly lockout (further strengthening my argument). The whole competitive PvE environment would also be much more fair and skill dependant without world buffs.

I’m just a normal player trying to improve my experience going forward into SoD and I know my opinion matter little. But it’s my 100% honest opinion that world buffs will ruin the experience for all players, and less players = less revenue, so do what you will with that information.

TL:DR, TL:DR
Remove WB’s, it’s bad game design.

3 Likes

Holy hell, are you paid per letters?

Even if I agree with your conclusion, the point is moot. The reaction in SoM has proved that the majority really wants this feature, so it’s not going away.

At most maybe we could push for a cap on how many we could have or for an easier way to store them without having to unboon/boon everytime

If you remove world buffs all your casuals in green gear/parses are gonna struggle even more to clear the raid.

Also regarding parses good players that know how to play will beat you on parses with or without wbuffs. Like on this shaman you’ve raided 4 times in 3 months and complain.

As you prepare for raid with consumables same way you prepare with wbuffs. And if you die and lose them it’s either a you issue or a guild issue cause you play with bad people.

This sounds like another I’m too lazy to spend 30mins to get 5 buffs.

Big difference is that you can hoard elixirs in your bag, it is easy.
WBs are a effort that can be lost at first boss due to bad luck. And after that the fun is going downwards.
Yesterday they let the tank die in ST on fourth boss. Guess what, 20 sec later my wbs were also gone because i was second in threat. And i was instantly thinking “ok why are you punishing me for dealing good dps?”
WBs are a fun as long as you have them up, but often a fun killer in the end.

Just like it is supposed to be, bad gear should mean bad performance… why are you turning this around like “bad gear can easily be compensated with WBs” is a good thing?

Well the problem is not wbuffs is the fact that your noob healers didn’t heal the tank. Or tank didn’t use defensives/played risky.

And for the 2nd point casuals struggle in this game and wbuffs help them to pass over bosses.

For good players wbuffs don’t mean anything. With or without them we’re still pumping and clearing oneshot.

For bad players wbuffs make the difference between a kill or a wipe.

If this is the case and the majority of all players actually like WB’s I yield.
Then atleast make them less of a hassle to collect over time.

Maybe add an NPC called Mr. Boon or w/e.
Once you have collected a WB you can talk to him and he will forever be able to rebuff you with the buffs you have stored at him, let’s say once every hour, and for a price. That way you could even HS, rebuff and rejoin the raid if you accidentlly die. Solving some of the problems i mentioned. Plus since you actually have to get the buff in the first place it wouldn’t be “to casual” for the people who still think it’s hard to collect them.

No cause that NPC will be abused in PVP and everybody is going to join bgs with all the wbuffs up.

Wbuffs are a risk vs reward. You don’t want to lose them everybody in that run has to perform. You lose them better luck next week and improve the tank/healers/dps depending what your guild run issue was.

Yes, and that’s a bad thing? Imagine being able to brag about actually having killed something that most people haven’t and being ahead of the curve for longer then 2-3 days like it has been since the release of classic. I would prefer if it took longer for guilds to clear content and then push clear times instead of how it is now where almost every guild is clearing and it’s only a matter of “do i want to raid for 30 or 70 min a week?”

Sure, and thats fine. But i would prefer if skill actually mattered in order to clear a raid instead of just being the difference between parsing 70 or 99. So becuase i haven’t been very active durring phase 3 my opinion matters less?

Yes, thats exactly what this is. Because not everyone want to (or even have the time to) prioritize 30 min on every character before every raid doing something that’s not even remotely fun. You could argue that world buffs are fun, but no one on this planet can convince me that collecting them is a fun and active game play, not since the chronoboon got introduced atleast.

I don’t see how getting WB’s easy like once every hour is going to get more abused in PvP apart from what they already are in BG’s.

Sure, and I think this is part of the problem i’m trying to get across. People who support world buffs want to play a game of loot pinata, easy content, big numbers, fast paste week after week. Whereas people who don’t want them might enjoy a slower pased game where progress isn’t given away that easily. To each is own I suppose and like i said before if the majority of players want the first im all for it. WB’s = Classic, No WB’s = Vanilla in short.

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Yes! Here we go again! Fill my mouth with that thick sweet juice!
slurp
URGH!
This isn’t juice!
My mouth is full of oil!
thick cooking oil!

The mere existence of the chronoboon displacer and how Season of Mastery wasn’t that popular should be a hint in that direction.

Classic is not about skill, Prestige or hardcontent, You got retail for that.

Only reason i skipped SoM was no WB’s.

No WB’s is just instant quit

This is classic its supposed to be easy and without skill ? if you want a hard game that requires skill go play mythic + or mythic raiding in retail…

I only agree with you that world buffs are annoying as hell to get i have 5 characters i plan to play on in SOD p4 its going to be a pain to get world buffss on all of them, i don’t agree that they don’t add anything possessive to the end game raiding, it makes you feel bad if you die or wipe your raid by being stupid (when classic is how its supposed to be, easy). When its not your fault and you wipe because some idiot didn’t interrupt (eranikus fear/chain lighting from trolls) it also makes the game more fun a nice way to go above and beyond. All of this can be fixed by addling less mechanics to bosses but having them hit harder and have more hp then how it was so they take a bit longer. I would also love it if they made it so you only need to gather world buffs on one characters and you have them on all chars like a account wide boon. this would fix my frustration with having to run around the world getting buffs on 50 alts that i want to play (because buffs are REQUIRED to play the game at any level sadly this is also an issue)

it might not require “skill”.
you don’t need to be a master at dance-dance revolution to partake, but be warned, what little skill the game demands, people will put on a pedestal and gatekeep.

you’re lucky if any raid groups will take you if you haven’t done the raid the week it opens.
the longer time goes on without you having parses, the less likely you will be brought to the raid.

people have seen what its like to try to raid with people who haven’t done the ST raid late in phase 3 of SOD, and they’re likely going to avoid players without parses like the plague for end-game raids after the first week of its release, as a result.

people will no longer have a modicum of patience for those who need to learn the encounters from scratch by week 2.

not me dictating this, just my prediction based on what we’ve seen so far.

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Just go with the world buffs you pick up in hub areas near flight paths and then boon them. Maybe DMF too if you are inclined. Its not hard to get 2-3 world buffs before a raid which is more than enough. People make this more of a deal than it actually is.

Stop forcing yourself to parse above blue if you are casual, its not fun for you fine: and is not required to clear a raid.

collecting wb’s is as much fun as going out to empty the trash can. the only difference is that getting wb’s takes a lot longer.

then there is the terrible feeling when you lose the buffs early because some nimrod in the raid messed up… it only breeds toxicity

i’d say just remove them.

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Sucks to be you then, SoM was great. Rofl, loser.

Happy to hear that you had fun :slight_smile:

Just not my thing.

No need to be offended that we have different preferences.