Hi guys,
Seen this post on the us forums so i‘d like to ask: what would be your wishes for season 4?
I’ll start with: Season 4 being a fun-season with opportunities to test out different characters it would be super nice having crests and flightstones be account-wide or transferable to other characters via a vendor-box (maybe after unlocking ksm or fated ahead of the curve)
What are your ideas?
This is my wishlist:
And that is my wishlist.
Let’s go:
Yeah, it would be a nice season 4 then.
Dont agree with this. ToT 3rd boss is EZ for classes that have a reliable short CD block (warriors) while DHT 2nd boss is EZ for those that have reliable short CD walls and self heals (DH).
It would mess up tank balance more than it already is. If anything, tank damage should get the “magic dispel type” treatment healers got. To facilitate tank balancing.
Or just make all tanks inmortal up to super high keys. Which is what we got today.
Absolutely not. Please NO.
There is a reason why affixes have been nerfed season after season since Legion. They are incapable of doing FUN affixes. Just “annoying” ones. Easy or hard. Does not matter.
So unless they plan on doing something radical with affixes, better to accept the fact that Blizzard cant do them correctly.
I don’t even understand what this is. What do you mean by this, to give Magic debuff removal tools to all tanks? I mean, sure either all of them or none of them should have it, I agree to that.
No thanks. I main tanking on everything except DH (haven’t leveled that one yet) and I don’t like how powerful they are.
We will have to agree to disagree. If they blanket remove affixes or nerd them further, I blanket quit M+ in season 4. It is already monotone and uninteresting in S3.
What I mean by this is: If you have a dungeon where 99% of the damage intake is physical damage, AND is blockable. You will have classes like Warriors, GDruids being massively OP.
If on the other hand you got dungeons with a TON of caster mobs doing a ton of magic damage, those 2 tanks will suffer and instead DHs, Palas, and DKs will be massively OP.
So when it comes to raw damage intake, if you increase it you will pop into problems where some tanks just don’t have the tools to survive some things. So you have to give them the tools to do so.
Or don’t. But then you have to nerf the damage to make sure they can all tanks survive stuff with the tools they got. Which is what we have now.
What I ment with the “dispel” thing healers got is that there used to be a time where “magic” type did not exist. So you had dungeon and boss mechanics with “disease” dots that made it trivial for Priests, and impossible for any other healer (unless you buffed them to OP levels).
So they decided that some things simply needs to be dispelled by ANY healer. Hence, the “magic” type was born.
You could do the same for “damage received” and tanks. But it has consequences.
What is there to agree/disagree to? Blizz has for 10 years tried to make FUN affixes (for the record, you can have difficult + fun, AND difficult + annoying) unsuccessfully.
They keep touching the “difficult” part of the equation. But they don’t realize the problem is in the “FUN/Annoying” part of the formula.
I just dont have any hopium left.
Back in the day, I suggested something to “fix” nasty 1-shots and combos people were getting with out nerfing the damage and making it boring for everyone.
What I suggested is to implement “smart” targeting from mobs. Thinks like: You cant get targeted twice by the same spell. And: You cant get targeted by 2 spells at once. Things like that.
So what happens when that particular mob runs out of targets? Then it just targets the tank instead. Increasing the damage taken by the tank, and forcing the healer to heal the tank instead of ignoring him.
I can give you a case study of where this is really cool: 1st boss of ToT and chain lightning.
So that chain lightning TRUCKS. BAD. However, it will ONLY target 3 people ONCE. Never twice on the same person.
However, its the chain lightning bounces that matter. It targets the CLOSEST person to you. So, if the tank is such a person, it bounces to him.
So you went from a boss that could potentially 1 shot a person if he got targeted twice in a row. To a more sustainable amount of damage, and some of it funneled to the tank. It also gives a really nice counter play and adds difficulty/challenge to the boss with out having to make things truck.
Compare that to any other random targeting boss (3rd from EB for example) and you see how random targeting stuff can get frustrating fast.
And incorporating “smart” targeting like this, adds challenge with out more damage, makes the tank sweat a lot more (cause more stuff will be funneled to him, depending on how well the party plays) and in general makes a more enjoyable M+ dungeon with out nasty 1-shots and RNG deaths.
That is not my experience. The only outliners for tanking are Warriors (god mode against melee attacks, glass against spell) and DK (prone to get one-shot if things align horribly).
Sure you can say that my suggestion will make Warriors stronger and DKs weaker relatively, but I am not against any DK buffs or Warrior nerfs.
However, from Druid, Paladin and Monk tanking POV, I rather see a blanket buff to mob damage in M+ still.
Yeah, Blizzard just needs to calculate this damage as unavoidable. Then it wouldn’t be a problem. (You can still avoid it by dispelling, but if you can’t, you are meant to deal with it).
There are some exceptions (early Grievous, Skittish, tiny adds triggering Explosive or on-death affixes, BfA Necrotic).
But overall almost all affixes increase my enjoyment of a run.
I won’t quote the whole thing, but honestly I have no idea how it relates to my suggestion.
Im not a tank expert. I suck at tanking. But I am good at system analysis. Its my job basically.
All I wanted to say is that your statement “buffing warriors” means giving them some tools that would make them good against magic (as good as the other tanks) and god-mode against physical damage (something the other tanks are not so good at).
This is a catch 22 situation. And to fix it you can either homogenize tanks, or, homogenize damage type. Both are equally valid, except that homogenizing damage type keeps the unique play-style of each tank intact.
Thats all I wanted to say.
Exactly. Thats what blizzard did with healers. They said: If damage is meant to be dispelled, ALL healers can. If its meant to be healed, NONE can.
It was the solution to the damage type problem. Tanks continue to have this problem with physical/magic damage.
Lets agree to disagree.
I personally want challenge. But challenge I can outplay. Not annoying stuff that just shows up for no reason. Also, im a healer. Im tired of being the “go-to” affixer of the party. I want a break sometimes. As tanks get.
I have been advocating for kiss/curse affixes for a long time. But its blind ears I guess.
It relates to the fact that you want more tank damage to make it more fun for you.
What I proposed is a different way to increase your enjoyment (more damage) with out necessarily increasing damage of tank-buster abilities.
Another way is to funnel party damage to the tank, via good and smart gameplay. Too much though, and the tank dies. Too little, and the healer cant keep up.
Adds an extra layer of fun complexity, with out ridiculous damage meters and 1-shots.
And gave the 1st boss of ToT as a prime example on how something like that would look like.
Eh, I wouldn’t be a huge fan of a blanket buff in damage intake for tanks on high keys. I am not an expert pusher, I have 3.3k on Brew & some 26’s done on Pala, & I am already using Rageheart+Stonescales to ensure I live, which really sucks. If you have no issues living, that means you aren’t pulling enough I think.
For instance, there’s a nasty pull in Throne with like 10 mobs & 2 of them being the tank smash+heal absorb fellas. On that one, Brew can dodge the smashes with double Blackout but doesn’t provide enough cc to deal with the casters, while Pala for instance has the cc but has to sweat on the tank smashes. I feel like there’s enough damage intake already, it’s just that you won’t notice it unless you do the bigger pulls (which are also necessary to time most high keys.)
Also, on the affixes. There’s very few that interact with specifically tank atm as stuff like Necrotic & Skittish don’t exist anymore, idk what makes you enjoy affixes. Looking at others dispelling/cc’ing like crazy? From my pov, the only affix that really makes me specifically do something is Sanguine, and that is just cringe.
At no point have I suggested that. Please read again.
Yes, not all tanks are equal and they never will be. At the moment, I feel like they are well balanced when it comes to survivability. They got their strengths and weeknesses. They don’t have to be the best everything.
100% agree with this. Cannot stand when people cry “Necrotic is a tank affix” or “Bursting is a healer affix”, absolute poppycock. They should be improved so that the healer cannot deal with them alone.
Another interesting suggestion. Not sure how it could be made so that it’s relevant for the entire run. Always loved Intervene and Hand of Sacrifice.
I don’t have anything higher than 24s, I main bear. I am not talking about high end. I have a problem with death not being an option even if you misplay at 18-20. I don’t think that it’s right.
Story time: I had this feeling come to me when I went a +14 Shadowmoon with a Warrior tank. He pulled the trash boss-to-boss, had a gazillion mob on him. The team couldn’t even approach the mess, or we would die in 2 seconds. The tank, constantly sitting at 100% hp, soloed the pack so that we can even approach the boss.
Pardon my old school views, but this never should be possible, at no key level. There should be stuns, healing reductions, stacking effects. Being a tank should not feel like you are god mode if you are playing correctly.
I know you will judge me, but yes. I love off-healing as much as possible. Dispelling, CCing; I loved early Spiteful, when they were hurting people: I would be doing tactical Vortex, mass entanglement, feral charge.
Not dying due to misplays just comes with gear no? I can sure tell you many stories of 4 hour weekly no leavers with Title level M+ pushers week 1/week 2. If you want to keep that sense of danger and risk, you either need to play the content early when your gear still limits you (20s week one of basically any DF season for instance), or push higher keys. With our current gear (485+, with most tanks being 486-487), you won’t find the same feeling until you hit 25’s/26’s, from my personal experience. That’s just a natural part of doing content late into the season.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I love challenge. But when we’re multiple months into a season, you shouldn’t really expect to find challenge unless you seek it. I love doing weekly 20’s on my 440s tanks with the boys, as they have challenge+good mems. But when I want to do a weekly 20 three months into the season on my main/second main, all I care about is 10 minutes in-out.
Not necessarily anything against offhealing, but if you want tank gameplay to revolve around that you’d need to redesign most tanks. Atm, prot pala is the only “real” spothealer, with Gdrood having some tools like After the Wildfire. But prot warrior, bdk & Brew don’t really have any offhealing whatsoever, and veng dh, prot warrior & bdk don’t have a dispell whatsoever.
With the current tank design we have, making M+ reliant on tanks to provide offhealing & dispells would delete some tanks from the game completely, and lean even further into the metagame we have atm with tanks like prot pala on the top. And then, well, it wouldn’t make sense for prot warrior have a dispell for example no? Or dh? It wouldn’t fit with the class design at all either.
If you want to see affixes that engage tanks more, it would need to be stuff like Necrotic, which brings even more logistics problems to tanks reliant on self heal rather than constant absorbs & dr.
You are absolutely right. I think I probably misrepresented what I enjoy about affixes. It is not the personal responsibility, but rather forcing me to use the wider functionality of my class.
It just happens that I enjoy tanking and I enjoy doing off-role things.
You are right, designing encounters/affixes with that mantra would bring a big bottleneck for class viability.
Also, I probably didn’t express myself correctly if you feel I said that I don’t think tanking is challenging at any key level.
But I do think that tanking is easier compared to the intended key level.
Last season I had a 403 ilvl pally tank time a +16 HoI, I didn’t have to heal him at all. I don’t think that it’s right.
Il take your word for tank balance. As I said, I dont tank at all.
But I cant stop noticing that over the course of DF, there has always been 1 tank that outshines the rest by a large margin. Something that does not happen so much with healers for some weird reason.
So I assume its balancing issues.
And that is why im so tired of affixes. Hurting people == my problem.
Its always “hurting people”… or the most recent ones (afflicted/incorporeal)… where I get punished as well for other peoples failures.
Not fun. Annoying.
There’s a public perception as well. Bear was F tier for the entirety of BfA and SL (except S4) and somehow my personal healer said that I am his most reliable tank. Same with monk.
But don’t you get a slight smile when people don’t help with the affix (or just ignore spiteful) and you can enjoy people getting clapped from the best seat in the house? I sure do.
Favourite is when they stack Bursting to 10+ stack and decide to refresh it at last second. I don’t even blink, I just stop healing and let it wipe.
Yeah, but I want to finish the key you know. I play to do dungeons. Not to educate people.
I pop Link (best CD for that) and just move on. And 10 stacks is peanuts. Try 22… 
But I like Bursting. Its truly, 100% a healer affix that can be dealt with proper CD management. There is counter-play to this. Every healer has it.
And if I play good, then the route of the dungeon is the same as it would be with out the affix. The tank can still do massive 30 mob pulls… ect…
AND has the added benefit that in boss fights (where crazy damage and OOM risk is) has no bursting. So where it matters, I dont have to worry about it.
However, I would like to see a reward for being a giga-chad and healing 22 stacks of bursting on the 1st pull of EB.
That is why I want kiss/curse effects. THAT would make it fun and rewarding. And if you cant deal with it… then you either get no reward (taking smaller pulls) or wipe (dont use CDs properly).
Well… there is public perception with healers too. Tanks are not alone in this.
But somehow tanks are the only ones with this balance problem.
Don’t think I have anything to say except to the last point:
Tank has always been very skill based, rather than gear. For instance, my guild’s main tank brings some rat alt from two tiers ago & tanks the endboss on Mythic just fine. That’s because he’s good at playing the class and utilizing his tools and externals, to the point where he doesn’t necessarily need gear.
There are of course limits to this, and the class in question also affects it a bit. But just keep in mind that with a talented tank, anything can seem easy or undertuned.