SWG very much had it, it was called the Storyteller system and I’m sure if you Google it you’ll find out all about it.
STO also had a system where you could create your own areas and quests for other players to take part in. It was called The Foundry and again, a google search will tell you all about it.
Well one other developer - Bethesda is allowing players to build ‘camps’ small player homes with relatively low budget. And even with that small area/low budget and relatively fixed assets players manage to exploit it so much that occasionally developer just shuts objects completely off to fix it.
What you think what would happen if warcraftian nutters and enthusiasts get tools and toys for making bigger areas here ? If some guys in another game with few and minor amount of assets manage to cause headaches left and right, then Blizzard fans would go absolute ape-edge-pushing.
For RP it can work only if its set instances with prefabs and set tokens. Player liberty is not going to work. because there are always those, who push the kindness out of the window.
Any game system has the potential to be (and will be) exploited.
If implemented correctly and thought put into how it works the potential for exploitation can be mitigated.
For example
No XP gain to be had from it.
No loot or gold to be available.
No player trading allowed whilst in it.
Those three are things I’ve seen exploited in other MMO’s where player made content is allowed and exploitation led to some heavy nerfs in the system.
A lot of exploits I see are simply down to the devs thinking that players will ‘do the right thing’, which of course won’t happen and there are always those that will seek to cheat and exploit any system they can.
I dont thjink you understand what the story teller ‘did’.
It wasnt anything special. It just made peoeple’s immersion alot better.
OP is talking about different stuff, once again,.
You hijack his threat with your own ideas.
Well ‘implemented correctly’ - 1st quetsion is would this engine even have tools for it yet, and making new modules would cost a lot of additional resources (human and money) and seeing how vulnerable such systems are in various games I do not see Blizzard willing to dish out extra for now. especially after garrisons - where people felt too isolated.
I do like the idea of interactivity in games - also in this game, but implementation is a question mark. In MMO people want to see other people, but many people in open world make interactive systems complex matter to tackle.
I fully understand what the Storyteller system did and used it a lot to create scenarios for my guild. Whilst you couldn’t create any new areas you could modify an existing area with pretty much anything you wanted.
As an example I had one scenario where we had Nightsisters invading Tatooin and the players task was to find their base and destroy it, took a lot of setting ip but was awesome fun doing it.
The devs will already be using tools to create the world we see, and the resources are already there as they’ll be existing one’s already in the game (Art, Sound, etc.)
No, this is not the same thing. While game engines are different as are the tools, but some parallels can be pulled.
I have built a lot of levels in different engines - its my side hobby . build game levels. One of the easiest engines and locations to build your imaginary worlds is Bethesda’s Creation. And so it happens this engine has also now 2 games that support in-world building (known among fans as settlement and CAMP building). What makes Bethesdas interactive world element’s building kind of good is that NPcs navigation works on it relatively well (better in 76 than in 4).
Now reason i mentioned I build levels as one of my hobbies. I build them using tools very similar game developers themselves use.
And I can tell you what safe-UI is in-game what player would use and what options dev tools (even when dev tools we use for Bethesda modding are thinned down from software they have no authority to distribute) offer are like night and day. Not to mention how you have to set up in-game models that a player can place them. from its angle points and behavioural settings. How make a cube behave like a cube, when used in-game, or how game world would treat the object you place.
I can build you new skyrim/Fallout4 map, and I could technically make you map pieces for 76, but if I make even one singular object like a flower pot as player placed object I have to add 2 sheets of more data to the object data. Just so a player could pick it up, rotate and place it so it doesn’t fly away after.
this does not even include unique zone building. Bethesda now tries to implement something like instanced player CAMP building which is still just same thing they did in FO4, just allow you to make own instance with same rules.
Some engines like Ubisofts AnvilNext2.0 are so rigid that when ubisoft makes DLcs later, they have problems to add the content to SAME world and so they make additional load-screen maps and new maps.
So we do not know how Warcrafts engine is set up for player interactive objects. Because dev tools capabilities and player interaction are two different aspects, even when you’d see them alike.
heck even as little thing like setting up how would you line of sight enemies in your newly built location is a task of its own. player would never see such items in game world, but this data has to be part of the assets provided.
Warcraft 3 is gone and from it’s ashes has arisen a new game there’s ruined everything that Warcraft 3 once stood for.
u know servers cant even handel a 100 vs 100 fight even … so how will this even be pussible …
I fully understand what the Storyteller system did and used it a lot to create scenarios for my guild.
You obviously do not understand the difference of what is offered in a game as per in game stuff then actual modding and making content for a game that is what OP is talking about.
Then you later on refer to a TES game, which is even more silly because they are singleplayer game.
As an example I had one scenario where we had Nightsisters invading Tatooin and the players task was to find their base and destroy it, took a lot of setting ip but was awesome fun doing it.
As an example I had one scenario where we had Nightsisters invading Tatooin and the players task was to find their base and destroy it, took a lot of setting ip but was awesome fun doing it.
Feature that came with the game vs feature thats modded in?
Do you understand the main difference here?
OP is talking about modding, actual modding.
Not in game ‘tools’ for immersion stuff and I know the immersion of everything SWG related was better then wow. You dont have to tell me that considering I played that game for 4 years.
You are STILL hijacking OP’s topic. In op’s case, its simple not gonna be possible.
Which is why I made that statement earlier on your TES comment.
Why shove your point of view into a topic that is no where near relative to what OP is talking about?
The devs will already be using tools to create the world we see, and the resources are already there as they’ll be existing one’s already in the game (Art, Sound, etc.)
The devs use third party tools.
What came with SWG was not third party. It was fully implemented into the game. Come on…
You want to talk third party applications developers use you are going to spend hours of compiling code… You dont just ‘place’ an object in world like you did in SWG to make a ‘mod’ or ‘map’ (Hint hint, both are the same thing. New costum made maps are just mods for the game. Wethjer you use GTK Radient back in the day or valves hammer, or Unreal Dev Kit).
On top of that, You obviously did not play AOE3 nor AOE2 to know how theyr map making makings… wtf
I think it would be a very cool idea. It would certainly require a lot of work and some proper thought as to implementation but the idea is great. I would personally love to have a tool like this.
For all those saying it can’t be done in an MMO, I’m not certain whether it is still a thing, but the MMO Neverwinter had pretty much this exact thing where budding creators could publish entire scenarios including maps, battles, branching dialog trees etc, with the necessary triggers and mechanics to implement stories. These were then available as instances for players to enjoy. A lot of them were just linear XP farms, but there were also some really fun adventures.
I used the SWG Storyteller system as an example of player created content in a game, which is exactly what it was.
It’s totally relevant to the thread as the op talks about
This comes under the something similar category and is therefore not hijacking the thread.
You’re making a mountain out of a molehill here by focusing on just one example I gave.
So stop trying to be a know it all and picking fault with something that someone mentions that doesn’t fit in with your narrow interpretation of what ‘something similar’ means.
As for ‘shoving’ my PoV, this is a forum and I’m free to comment and make any suggestion I like so stop dragging the tone of this thread down into the gutter please.
OP makes no mention of this idea using 3rd party software.
No I don’t but you obviously want to steer the debate that way for your own personal agenda maybe ?
you’re right, I’ve played neither of those games and I don’t need to have played them to discuss the something similar the OP mentions.
So go and pick on the other poster that also mention these tools osed by the developers.
I get that you don’t like this idea and you think it’s wrong, there’s nothing wrong with that opinion however singling out and picking on one poster isn’t right. so please, let the grown ups have a civil discussion about this and stop trying to make an argument out of things.
you’re right, I’ve played neither of those games and I don’t need to have played them to discuss the something similar the OP mentions.
Your idea is totally different… There is absolutely nothing similar about it.
Objectively, the result is slightly similar, but your idea is totally different.
I dont make an arguement by stating what is factually correct and what is not…
I picked you because you talked how SWG specifically supported ‘modding’ as to what OP is -not- talking about. And thenh you mention TES stuff which is done via third party menas because it has a ccreator kit provided by developers outside of a game…
No I didn’t, I mentioned how SWG (amongst other games) had the ability and the tools for players to create their own content, which is part of the general topic here, not just modding.
I used those as examples of the sort of stuff other developers have done and wasn’t suggesting that Blizzard do the same.
I’m pretty sure that the OP can speak for themselves and would comment if they thought anyone was derailing the thread so they don’t need someone like you to fight their battles for them.
As for the argument, most of you posts directed at me have been to criticise or contradict things I’ve said and also to claim I’m saying something I didn’t to make your comments look good.
… In game system that you earn in game vs…
An actuall modding tool that actually adds content to your game…
Theyu are not going to give you those tools.
As for the argument, most of you posts directed at me have been to criticise or contradict things I’ve said and also to claim I’m saying something I didn’t to make your comments look good.
At this moment of time, you’re posting on a forum. Discussion happens here. If you do not like it, feel free to iggnore it but if I see a difference between what Sony provided with Storyteller vs an map editor (which guess what, isnt just an editor to begin with… you make whole maps on those)…
^^^^
This is what OP is talking about. You are refusing to understand that… It is the whole reason why it wont ever happen on MMO’s.
NWN Online has (had?) a feature like this. It was used almost exclusively to create powerleveling maps. They had a mage class that had a push skill that could push things off a ledge… so the most popular maps were ones with dozens of high level enemies right next to ledges, so you just run, push them and level up to max level in 30 minutes or so.
You obviously didn’t read the bit where I mentioned you can’t create maps with the SWG system, so why mention it ?
Star Trek Online and Ryzom are both MMO’s and they both had map editing and creation tools that ADDED content to the game. It’s already happened. So who’s the one refusing to understand ?
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