WOTLK should be the classic benchmark

Apart from having to look up cineastic :wink: Thanks for the new word of the day.

I strongly disagree here.

No it was not!

Linearity is not necessarily good for gaming and immersion.

Then why not just put in auto-complete option?

No not everything after Wrath was bad, and not everything before was bad either.
I strongly dislike WoW after Wrath (ie. Cata onwards) for several reasons. Pandaria was the least bad of them because they still had humour (Like placing Ferdinand the bull beneath a tree there).
A few reasons why I did not like Cata/Pandaland:

  • It ruined ‘my’ world.
  • Levelling became a joke.
  • Quests you could not avoid - or abandon.
  • Achievements turned into gifts, and into PvP prizes.
  • Professions became a grindy thing and a not even necessary niche.
  • Accountbound everything made levelling alts a tedious and boring affair.

I could go on, but I think you get the drift.
I’m all for freedom of choice and fun WHILE levelling.

Edited for typos.

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If you have to get 4 zhevra hooves and you got one out of 10 zhevras then it’s bit of a meme… and you are focusing on getting the hooves instead of why and what.

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Yes? That’s the idea behind Questing … I still read the Quest texts. And I don’t mind honing my skills killing some zehvras to prove my mettle.

There is a lot of concepts on how to make question. You may like design X but other may like something different and the game will drift to what majority wants.

Original WoW before release did not have quests planned at all. The idea was to have zones where you grind mobs and quests only leading you from zone to zone as you level up. But people liked quests instead of no-name mob grinding (even when quests were mob grinding) so Blizzard started making quests. On launch they didn’t had enough but they were adding them.

Then with late vanilla and moving to expansion they started to have a main plot point, main story and side events. They also tried put more emphasis at storytelling like other competing games but after few good expansions they crashed hard when they over-did-it with 360-no-scope “elaborate” plots.

And FF14 went with story driven questing, even for side quests. In the end it made grown men, ex-WoW players included, cry.

Each to his own. I like the freedom of going here or there or there as fancy takes me. Doin all the quests where I like them and not where I dont, and still being able to Quest in the relevant zones when I get there.
For instance I can live with how you go to nev zones in the older xpacs (TBC - just jump the portal - Wrath take a ship; or swim out there) and hated it in later xpacs where you had to suffer through a long line of - mostly H vs. A - line of Quests.

I don’t really understand what you say here

Is it one long story line? and is it very sad so that people cry over the story, or is it so linar in structure, so that people cry in frustration?

That you should be mindful of others… and the game doesn’t really force you to do quests aside of like expansion unlocks and alike.

No, quests related to main story plot are separated from side quests by different icon and way of tracking (where as “main” story is not the same through every expansion).

And people cry because the storytelling is 10/10 in some cases. Really good characters/character development including villains. WoW villains are usually mocked by how poorly they are written, while in FF they go viral and people go crazy on fanart, cosplay and whatnot. That’s one of key problem with modern WoW :wink:

Sorry what?
I am mindful of others as far as I know I want freedom of choice for all of us. I fight for all three RP servers to stay alive. I figth for TBCC Era servers to be made (even if I won’t play there). I help people in-game …

What I did not understand was this part:

Then with late vanilla and moving to expansion they started to have a main plot point, main story and side events. They also tried put more emphasis at storytelling like other competing games but after few good expansions they crashed hard when they over-did-it with 360-no-scope “elaborate” plots.

And FF14 went with story driven questing, even for side quests. In the end it made grown men, ex-WoW players included, cry.

And in your answer this sentence eludes my grasp:

This I do not understand - from language trouble most likely. Do you mean that the game does not encourage questing for other reasons than for unlocking expansions?
If this was not a Forum with forced English, I’d ask you to continue in your native language, as I probably would manage better then :frowning:

I would like the storytelling from ff14 in some of the quest hubs, but NOT that all quests is part of one big, main story. I never palyedff14, I looked a bit on my sons playing Elder scrolls and did not feel attracted at all, as I missed the freedom to go where I liked.

Keep in mind Final Fantasy 14 is, forgive the redundancy, a Final Fantasy game. It is a long-lasting saga of videogames in which they already know how to make a compelling story with character progression, plot twists, big reveals, etc. After all, they have decades of experience making single-player JRPG games, a type of game in which that type of storytelling is expected.

JPRG players won’t accept nonsense like the Retail story in which between major things of the game story happening in outside material like books, for example, Baine’s death.

The problem with the Retail story is that they try to make a big cinematic linear story but they always fail, the result is too much confusing. Good job trying to be a new player in Retail and try to experience all the story in order to understand it. Even if the new player forgets about old expansions and only plays the current one he will have trouble doing it, the game does not give you in which order the story happens. Without forgetting that the ending of the expansion, with Garrosh scaping to Draenor to start the next expansion, is not even in the game, is another example of major plot points of the story of the game that happens out of screen.

And don’t talk about previous expansion. Good job playing for example all the stories of MOP in order from start to finish, since you go to Pandaria until the death of Garrosh. The leveling story yes, you could do it, but once you reach the content that was available at 90 you have the same problem, all the story at that point is available at the same time, with no way to tell what comes first. And then we have the problem of removed story quests that leave big plot holes.

Or minor characters from previous expansions that suddenly are important. That in itself it is not a problem, secondary characters receiving more screen time happens in every media. But usually, there is some sort of character progression, and Retail usually to that off-screen too, like Nathanos. That was a secondary character from Vanilla that become an important one in Legion after a major character progression…entirely happen off-creen. In-game you suddenly see him being important out of nowhere. I am sure most people’s reaction the first time they saw him in Legion was “Who the hell is this guy?”

The problem with the Retail WOW story is that it is a good story that could be enjoyed…if you watch it on youtube, not if you play the game. That doesn’t leave it in a good place.

That is why simplest stories like Vanilla and TBC could be better than Retail because they are not so cinematic, but at being so simple it doesn’t have the problems Retail story has. A good linear cinematic story is better than simple small stories, but simple small stories are better than a bad linearly confusing cinematic story

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I am utterly bored by the comparison off WoW vs FFXIV. Almost as bored as playing that game :scream:

There is no difference really between an auto group finder and the bulletin board and probably EVERYONE and no doubt including auto raid group finder moaners uses and downloaded the bulletin board add-on. With insta summon etc raid finder to some extent already exists.

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The difference is it’s not random grouping. Group owner can excluded people.

You are correct, the random grouping is one of the most important differences compared to LFG/Bulletin.

One of the big reasons for RDF: every player (of the same role) has the same chance to play. Its about accessibility and inclusion of all specs, gear and experience, instead of the current cherrypick-gatekeep style, that naturally happens with the current type of group search.

The reason against RDF is that for those, who exclude anyone without optimal gear/class/spec from their group, the quality of runs will drop, if they queue completely random. However, they can still form premade groups, because those who have good gear are more likely to look for a premade “blaster” group for the same reasons they never had issues finding groups: they have their community and the gear to get invites.

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The community of “I don’t play classic but I want wrath to match my expectations, even if they are founded in fantasy.”

The forums is filled with this loud minority right now who, mostly, don’t even play classic.

Wrath should’ve just been released exactly how it was. It didn’t need any changes.

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And you know exactly who plays classic and who don’t? Stop making things up…

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I play classic since day 1. And since day 1, and like for most of the community, vanilla and TBC are just a long waiting room. Stop trying to ruin Wotlk, stay on SoM and keep it shut.

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Cute. The core of my guild and I have too.

You don’t get to decide what “most” of the community want.

Next joke. For decades it was “Vanilla servers please!” posts on these forums, not “i wanna play wotlk again :D”

Nobody is trying to ruin WoTLK. Read what people are actually telling you, you might learn something. Not having a dungeon finder doesn’t ruin WoTLK. Having a dungeon finder ruins the potential of any future in Classic.

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Same goes to you. However I don’t expect you to understand, you need to have a brain for that.

Yeah, that why J Allen Brack talked about how people would hate finding Tanks in general chat, and the community mocked him only to cry their eyes out about LFD starting in late/middle Classic ^^

Blizzard arent the bad guys that turned Retail into Retail, the community is and Classic was a great experiment to show that. Pretty much followed the blueprint 1:1

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You saying I don’t have a brain is like Amy Schumer telling Dave Chappelle that he isn’t funny.

I assume it’s going to take you a good hour to understand what I’ve just said to you.