WoW and it's 2021

Community General Discussion
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Ok… so I played a lot of FF14, (before the Asmongold craze). The game story is nice, specially the Asians part. But FF14 “Endgame” is a complete joke.

It only happens that we were in the final period of the expansion (best period, where all content is unlocked) and Shadowlands content cadence really sucked. Then corona, lol 60 free trials, content creators, etc. Then the whole lawsuit drama and all… man 2021 was really a disaster for Blizzard.

BUT…

Doing a closer look. With Endwalker being releases. I played for a week to only realise there is NO CONTENT left. At least no ENDGAME.

So let me just do a comparison. Shadowlands launched with.

9.0
-Castle Nathria (10 bosses, 3 difficulties)
-PvP (best pvp it’s been in a while)
-Covenants renown (rewards and progression)
-About 8 Mythic +dungeons

6.0 Endwalker
-2 Dungeons (expert dungeons) all are the same 3 trash groups > boss linear crap
-2 Trials Extreme (these are cool)
-4 new bosses on Pandæmonium (yes only 1 wing, whole expansion its going to be 12 bosses)

Yet somehow you see everyone here complaining and on SE forums if you point something they yell at you and call you a blizzard fanboy. Yet do you guys see the hoax ?

Is it a hoax ? Well, a bit yes but some of it is guaranteed. Let me expand.

What Blizzard did/does fine.

-Raiding (best raiding, no comparison) although tanking needs a little love
-PvP on 9.0 was excellent, even if the items were a bit too powerful even for pve. It gave a big pool for players.
-M+ I loved M+ on BFA. No need to nerf the highest ilevels. I stopped doing M+ as I could not get 233 gear, went pvp this time. My hunter sitting. Hope it can get back on 9.2.

-Combat fluidity. Not even close to the other games. I even play Gunbreaker on FF14 and some of you know how clunky it is a continuation combo when you want to move and it points you to the boss…

Where Blizzard really dropped the ball

-9.0 to 9.1 took just way too long. Period, you guys just shot yourself in the foot there. Any momentum shadowlands had you guys killed it. MAXIMUM time for patches need to be 5 months, but like at February 9.0.5 should have dropped with 9.1 on PTR at March. Dropping at late April on live. 9.2 should dropped at September and 9.3 around now.

-Nerfing pvp gear for pve. All pvers were feeding pvp, now its dead. I understand your philosophy here but we need more people pvping, raiding will always have its place.

-Timegating Covenants progression.

-Covenants. While a cool idea. The fact is that being in 1 covenant means enjoying 25% of the game. That sucks.

-NEVER AGAIN ISOLATED ZONES. All zones were on their own realms, it make the expansion feel smaller instead of a single cohesive planet. (Or two groups of big islands like BFA)

-Torghast. I revisited it, it feels much better now. But now it’s a bit too late. You should not be afraid of making something fun and REWARDING… torghast could be a good way to gear up. Just doing torghast. Why the hell not (even the best gear).

Where Blizzard is doing extremely bad

-Systems upon systems and borrowed power. Please STOP. It only worked on Legion. NO MORE PERIOD. This is lazy class balancing and it sucks if I know I’ll lose those powers in 2 years.

What FF14 does good that Wow can implement. (I’m not going over what it does bad as we don’t care)

-It is not afraid of invest a lot of effort on side content. Things like the golden saucer are extremely nice. The Dark moon faerie should be always and you could even drop a special patch just for it. Don’t be afraid of releasing cool patches in between the raids with side content.

-Housing. I know much is debated around this. But the thing is that housing opens up a whole plethora of RP opportunities that aren’t possible without.

-Cool flashy moves for melee. Come on I’ve always hated my Warrior abilities how they look and all.

-I’m torn between this, but FF14 older content is relevant. Make a way to replay all dungeons and raids and all besides time walking with up to date rewards. Why not only 10ilevel less than top Mythic gear ? Make it fun.

Finally a couple stuff.

-we need realm merges with some kind of population balancing. Yes it sucks for investors, but creating super servers is the way to go.

Last but not least. Where is the conspiracy ?

Everyone made FF14 be much than it really is. Game’s Endgame content is a plain joke. But blizzard should not be content thinking everyone is going to return to wow. Some causals found its place there. Otherwise like me are kinda skipping shadowlands entirely and waiting on other games like Lost Ark. Some will return but EVERYTHING depends on blizzard.

But please Blizzard. Get your stuff togheter

taken from USA forum

Wanted to see our take on it, since we cannot comment on murica, and I believe we are more sophisticated 8)

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I think you miss the part where final fantasy is about the story and there is an end to it. Wow on the other hand is all about end game, noone cares about the journey in wow.
Pvp in this game is a niche because is over complicated and convoluted, noone wants to take the time to learn each spec.
As an example when i started playing mobas it was very easy to play, not many choices, noone knew anything, these days me trying to explain someone how to play a moba is almost a full 12hour course of me trying to put 12 years of knowledge inside a new player head. Add that the average player is around no less than 5 years and you can see how a game like that becomes a niche.

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It’s important to point out that FFXIV places it’s main focus elsewhere, and that SE doesn’t have the same budget for FFXIV as Blizzard does for WoW (at least, according to Naoki Yoshida). FFXIV absolutely decimates WoW on story, lore, worldbuilding, voice acting, etc, alongside other stuff such as casual content and better RP elements, but WoW absolutely decimates FFXIV in terms of endgame content (not necessarily speaking about progression systems here).

It’s really unfortunate that FFXIV endgame is so shallow (as of right now, we have 2 Extreme bosses and in two days time, 4 Savage bosses), they could easily compete with WoW if they spend a patch or two’s worth of resources to develop long lasting tools, such as their version of M+ (or actually having the 3rd Endwalker trial be available on Extreme at the start ._. ), but it’s also important to point out that addons and tools such as DPS meters and Logs are forbidden by the game’s TOS (more of a “you don’t talk, we don’t know” policy), which removes a major competitive element from high end raiding.

You’ll get that with any playerbase (FYI, I know it wasnt you who wrote this post) that adores it’s game. Contrary to WoW, which has a playerbase that… doesn’t like it’s game, a lot of us tell others not to play this game. Toxic positivity is still toxic, just like toxic negativity.

At the end of the day, the biggest difference is that SE seems to listen to its players, compared to Blizz, which doesn’t. EDIT: Correction: The biggest difference is that Yoshida seems to listen to his players, compared to Ion, who doesn’t. As such, the game will be praised, but the company can still be heavily disliked, as recently proven by SE President Yosuke Matsuda with his plan of adding NFT-s into SE games.

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You can’t have a conversation with an angry mob.

A lot of “WoW bad FF good” posts tends to feel as if it was more about using FF as ammunition against WoW than actually comparing the two games. Of course everything in A will be perfect if your goal is to spit on B.

Consider starting your post with a short “this was taken from the US forums, just wanted to talk about it” or something along those lines. Just in case people don’t read until the end.

Gonna start by admitting i never tried FF and probably never will, I dislike the JRPG genre & art style and FF to me is at its core a JRPG first and foremost. That said I’ve heard enough about it to at least have an idea of what it offers or see the hypocrisy in some comments.

A lot of the praise FF receives comes from the lore, housing, casual content etc. While there are indeed a lot of things that game seemingly does better (once again, never played it) I believe it’s unrealistic to expect otherwise.

FF is a JRPG, the story is a core part of the experience and it seemingly worked fairly well for them. Yet in the meantime Blizz moto has always been “Gameplay First” and you can clearly see that difference in philosophy in the game’s content.

Back in the WoW diary (2018 iirc ? It’s the step by step story of WoW Classic’s development) we learned that Housing was considered for Vanilla but the devs felt that there wasn’t enough gameplay tied to it and that they would reconsider it if anyone managed to make it fun enough.

The story content is similar imo. The story is the medium Blizzard uses to introduce the content, not the other way around. Despite the various complains surrounding the SL lore you can hardly argue that there ever was a big focus on story content in the past.

I certainly remember how they treated Illidan back in BC, THE main character of the expansion that players see perhaps 3 times in quests then most likely never encounter in the raid due to the attunements. Such story, much lore.

Meanwhile in FF you afaik have entire storylines actually told within the raids. Yet when it comes to gameplay basically every encounter i’ve seen in FF were one circular arena with no relief, objects etc. Just one big boss waiting in the middle of a flat disc. Talk about lazy encounter design.

That’s the main difference between two games and the reason why FF is no “WoW killer” : They each have their own audience and can function independently from one another. If you’re here for the story then FF may offer a much better experience. On the other hand if you’re here for the gameplay and experience then WoW is your best bet.

That’s about it really, anything beyond that often ends up in mindless tribalism “My stuff is better than your stuff and you should be ashamed of yourself”.

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imagine playing a FF game for the endgame a game series known for it’s stories :stuck_out_tongue: hahahahhahaha dumb orc if anything wow’s obsession with endgame is why it’s a dumpster fire now and bleeding subs like crazy

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Hey, no need to call names!

I am an orc librarian. I have read a cook book.

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I mean, even if you had to tack on PvP being good to your 9.0 list, WoW’s issue isn’t really a lack of content for the most part. It’s that all the content is mandatory for micro progression and then the retention mechanic of the game is “forcing” you to keep replaying the same content you were able to finish in the past for a pointless fill the bar system they’ll remove and replace with a new fill the bar system next expansion or even during the same expansion.

In FF you finish and you can leave and come back for the next content drop. That is if you wanted to play the 2 games the same way.

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