Fromthe person who came onto the forums to create a thread crying about a tank not pulling fast enough and not skipping half of Dire Maul.
WAAAH, the dungeon took me 10 minutes longer than it could have.
irony much…
10 Likes
This is not how dungeons are meant to be done. This is A-Typical behaviour, although more and more common.
A-Typical groups should use LFG and create those groups for that specific play style.
Typical / Traditional dungeoneering is the Tank sets the pace. The Tank pulls. The tank sets the route.
Unless they add a setting to LFD match making for “Fast Run” or “Slow Run”. Which I think would be a good idea.
4 Likes
If it was not for kick as well then it would turn into “I am done here, I’ll afk until you kick me, i don’t want CD”
Its the Go Go Go ppl and they tend to be the M+ bros… I had someone say as a DPS they should pull more if they can deal damage lol…
People have just forgot what roles do… Tank sets the pace if you don’t like “slow” pulls LEAVE.
Hardly. People been rushing runs especially if it was a leveling dungeon for their Xth alt long before M+ was even introduced(which was early Legion). Need to remind the pre-legion leveling dungs? People where pulling everything to boss and then some before they squashed that and made tanks oneshotable if you pull more than 1-2 packs.
People like to blame m+ for absolute every problem in WoW but this one aint it.
How about you link the entire conversation hm? Ah no, that wouldn’t support your claim now would it?
You conveniently left out the part where no party member died or was in any kind of danger and the healer didnt sweat as a result of a 630+ Rogue being able to delete the packs in seconds in a normal/heroic dungeon (not Mythic 0. Not Mythic+. Normals and Heroics. Stuff that I overgear by 50+ ilvl)
And also where I said that if the Tank would ask then I would stop and even put tricks on him on every pull as otherwise I would overaggro anyway (which you also complained about. Something I don’t have any power over outside of tricks and nobody but rogues and hunters have power over in the first place. Blaming people for something that isnt even their fault to begin with, making your entire rant a gigantic facepalm) as a result of him asking and you being a yapper that complains behind the back while never opening their mouth to converse with the people in the first place.
Hes talking out of his behind.
6 Likes
And why not ? So they should be done exactly like you say they should be done ?
I ask that you read again what I wrote. I did not say rushing through dungeons is the way to do them. I said its ONE of the ways to do them. There are many others. Yours is one of them. ALL equally valid reasons.
So. You cannot “force” people to play the game in a particular way. THAT is wrong.
The only thing you can do is before the dungeon starts talk a bit with people and make sure you ALL have the same objectives. DONE.
Ehhh… NO… A good tank adapts the pace of the route to the TEAM. Not you YOU specifically. That is the case today and in “traditional” dungeons.
If your group wants big packs. Your healer can deal with it and you can survive it… THAT is your pace. If on the otherhand there is someone that is weak, or simply people dont want huge packs, then that is your pace.
Like I said. Before the dungeon starts ask people: Want big pulls or small pulls ? See what they answer. If they then ask for bigger pulls than pull bigger. Its what a “leader” does.
Talk with people?
Euuuuuw
Being forcibly kicked or leaving by yourself are two very different things though.
Think he just misunderstood given following responses. A later post of him said that otherwise we would have people be afk and demand a kick to avoid the deserter buff (which was frequently the case in disliked dungeons and a reason why Blizzard implemented it all these years ago)
You can do a dungeon any way you want to. You can do a M+ with 5 Hunters if you want to.
But the traditional way is for 1 tank, 1 healer and 3 DPS. Tank sets the pace and decides the route.
If you wish to deviate from the tradional route then you should form your own group to do so. You should complain that players are playing he game the way it is generally played.
maybe u can tell in chat on start that u are not best tank and that u will pull slower
Define “generally played”. People have been doing pretty much whatever they want to do in normals and heroics ever since they became trivial (basically since M+ became a thing. Even in WoD they were more dangerous when they added Mythic 0 in the latest patch). People seems to also generally favour a fast rush pace if possible due to normals/heroics being viewed as an inconvenience or the means to a goal (max level or to get into heroics for normals, lfr/m0 for heroics).
What you said mainly applies to M+ and Raids and there it is the case I agree. Arguably M0. I know M0s also have rush grps (like 1 tanks 4 dps) if its the weekly quest (which now covers heroics so theres that). People pull generally less like a madman there because well, stuff may actually hurt unlike heroics or yet alone normals (depending on ilvl/class)
Also this. I havent encountered even one tank or healer that said that who happened to get flamed by the grp. In fact if someone wanted to kick that person the kick failed 100% of the time. People are rather giving advice than throw a fit. The key is communication rather than being silent and then yap about it behind the back of the person involved.
Even in M+ its accepted on lower levels as long as this is communicated beforehand so people know what they sign up to. Its the exact reason why I join weekly no leaver keys (including if someone wants to boost a low geared alt/guildie). I KNOW that the key will be horrible. I expect it. And I’m fine with it.
I already responded to this exact argument
No. Wrong !
Tank has to adapt the route and pace to the group he has. In LFG, in M+ and even in Delves. Being a tank is not a position of power. Its a selfless job just like the healer is.
And it works both ways too. If the tank is too impatient and the group cannot keep up he isent doing it right either.
We can even take it further. A tank also has to take into consideration the parties CDs and adapt to them. He should not get 2 massive packs back to back with out checking the healer CDs and mana first. And he should not waste the DDs CDs by taking small packs when DDs have their CDs ready.
A tank adapts to the party. Not the party to the tank. That is what tanking is. Good tanking that is.
Back in vanilla WoW, there was a real sense of community before guild perks and other features were added, which marked the beginning of the decline. People used to be different—more supportive and connected. Now, it feels like everyone’s just out for themselves, with a “screw you, I’m getting mine” attitude.
Players don’t seem to care anymore. Healers won’t bother resurrecting you if you die, they skip heals, and classes able to combat res just won’t combat res. Tanks rush through the content like they’re racing against a ticking time bomb. I was hoping to get some nostalgia out of Classic Timewalking since I haven’t done these dungeons in ages, but people just end up ruining the experience. It’s not Blizzard making it this way; it’s the people playing.
3 Likes
This is true. The tank does have to adapt to the group in terms of checking for mana etc.
But this is still on the tank to keep an eye on things as part of their role of setting the pace. The tank is still part of a group after all.
But an impatient DPS should not be setting the pace in any regard.
2 Likes
An impatient DPS is as bad as a snail tank (and also something Tanks shouldnt get used to due to M+). If the tank wants to learn tanking just say so, the dps should stop and if he doesnt then well, try to kick him I suppose if democracy agrees (if it doesnt then well, the rest of the grp doesnt agree with that PoV and just wants the dungeon to be over with)
And we are talking about DPS that can actually kill the stuff they pull by themselves. If the DPS cant but still pulls it then he deserves a kick yes. You pull it, you tank it.
A DD should not even have to ask those questions. The tank should know from the beginning.
In the case of LFG you ask at the start of the dungeon how you want things done. And you adapt.
In the case of M+ its implicit already that the tank will try to go as fast as possible with out causing a wipe. Because of the timer.
And that is the main difference between LFG and M+. In LFG you have to pre-agree what is the desired pace. In M+ its implicit. Even the DDs know the pace of the route.
In fact, it is COMMON to ask the tank for his route in MDT. So everyone can see what packs will be pulled, when, and where. Even when will BL be cast and stuff like that. You talk that out before starting.
The tank decides of course, but he communicates this stuff with the party. And if the party disagrees, they can say so before the dungeon begins. And of course the tank should adapt as the run progresses. Going slower or faster depending on CDs. Its not like the route will roll out exactly as he put it in MDT.
That is how things are done. By TALKING.