WoW is P2W - Do you agree?

Community General Discussion
773

What does that matter?!

What kind of nonsense is this?!

Are you having a laugh here or what?!

You’re starting WoW today and the other dude is starting WoW today.
He uses his credit card and you don’t.
He reaches endgame and gets powerful faster than you, with no time, effort, or skill required on his part.

“Oh but Jito I didn’t start playing today and I’ve played for years and blah blah blah!”

Yeah but he did, and he’s already doing +8 like you.

So clearly he got this from swiping his credit card:

Because you got to +8 by investing a lot of hours into the game, a lot of effort, and being moderately skilled at it, right?

He got to the same place with no time, effort, or skill required on his part.

So that’s the advantage you buy.

And don’t even think about arguing the semantics of “advantage” with me. I swear to God… :rage:

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774

Provides zero advantage in any competitive area of the game.
And any minor advantage in AH activity is so insignificant as to barely be worth mentioning.

This is all a matter of scale. Sure real money plays a very minor role in WoW, but to say it’s P2W means that it’s the same as Diablo or Rumble.
If you think WoW is P2W and I am considering playing Diablo but I hear it’s P2W just like WoW then I’m not put off Diablo in the slightest. When I start playing it and I find that I have to grind for a year to get a sharpened stick then I’m angry that I wasn’t warned off this horrible game which is nothing like WoW.

775

How is he more powerful if he loses to a healer on damage as a DPS with a legendary weapon?

776

Thats not anecdotal evidence, that is 99% of the people who pay for carries.

777

Exactly?.. So he is paying to win… You say it yourself:

So without his wallet, he wouldn’t even be able to do the content…
But I repeat, you can’t use anecdotal evidence as an argument, because then I can mention someone who bought boosts because he was too lazy to farm the gear, and he is doing pretty decent doing high keys… Does this then mean its P2W?

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778

How is he winning?

I don’t get it.

He can’t even play the game with people that he’s not paying because they don’t want to play with him because he sucks, lmao.

780

Maybe its time to take a break and some deep breaths Jito?

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781

Is Diablo Immortal generally perceived as P2W?

Yes.

Can you buy things in Diablo Immortal that gives you a form of “advantage” or a form of “winning”?

Yes.

Can you buy the same form of “advantage” and “winning” in WoW?

Yes.

Therefore it stands to reason that if Diablo Immortal is perceived as P2W for selling this brand of “advantage” and “winning”, then so should WoW be.

That’s a simply logical argument.

Feel free to point out flaws with it.

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782

I’ven ever played Diablo immortal, but I looked it up:

" While you can’t exactly buy more direct power for your character, spending money does give you more access to activities or systems that will let you gear up your character much faster than compared to a player who isn’t willing to spend money."

So you get things other people don’t have access to if they don’t pay.

There’s no such thing in WoW.

783

Eh.

I can see that you’re all sitting around like vultures. So the moment I step an inch out of line I’m getting reported and buried. Like now. For the 50th time. You’re all really hellbent on trying to get me banned for trolling and harassment and stalking and vulgarity and so on.

Ah how people around here welcome discussion.

Bunch of nannies. If you don’t like the discussion you can just step out instead of getting hurt in your feelings and resorting to mass-reporting the posts of the one guy you don’t like. Booo-hooo. :cry:

(not you specifically, but plural you)

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784

I have nothing against you, and i have several times in this topic said that yes, wow has p2w elements, i just dont think the word win is a good word. But you do you, seethe and rage on this hill of yours as you wish.

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785

Ergo, his wallet allows him to skip a barrier making it P2W?..

He is literally paying his way through an obstacle, that others have to play through, hence… He is “paying to win”

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786

No, you don’t understand.

It’s the word direct.

Just like in WoW.

You can’t buy gear or power directly, because that would be P2W as the simple-minded people understand it.

So what Blizzard sells is the currency.

And by having lots of currency you can buy power. Thus Blizzard have indirectly sold you power.

That’s true in WoW as it’s true in Diablo Immortal.

It’s the same design by the same company.

Try playing the game instead of using your lack of knowledge with it as an excuse.

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787

Says the guy who believes that an achievement poping up on you screen equals a win…

788

not if others like Elahra has explained already but you keep ignoring keep leaving there keys and groups.

789

Where have I said that?

Source for that claim, now.

If you say “Says the guy” you’ll show me the curtesy of documenting that quote.

790

What does that have to do with anything?.. So you also keep ignoring me saying anecdotal evidence has no place in an actual debate?

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791

How do you “buy power”?

If I gave you my character and you had to redo the highest key I’ve done, would you be able to do it in time?

792

You are not bringing facts either to be fair , i personally think you are just here to stir up the debate again i will just mute you as well as you are not adding anything new at all.

793

I did… But of course, when you don’t have any arguments, you try to just discredit my entire point and say “i’ll mute you”… Like did you really add anything in response to me other than going “You are wrong, so I mute you hehe” ?

EDIT:

But okay, let me try again…

Anecdotal evidence, proves NOTHING. We can find outliers on both ends of a bell curve… So let’s look at it from a general perspective…

Player A and Player B are both new to the game. Same skill, same gear same class, same everything, except! Player A decides to play the game and go through gearing, doing multiple depletes, slowly progressing but learning.

Player B however, opens his wallet and buys multiple key and raid boosts…

Why is this considered “paying to win?” because while player A is being rejected for not having the appropriate score, gear, achievement whatever, player B can simply just buy his way to the end and get past the whole barrier to entry.

The argument is “Oh but everyone leaves his +8 keys??”

yes… but he wouldn’t have a +8 key if he never bought it… Because the barrier to entry would be too high? Like how does that not make it obvious to everyone, that the sole reason he is able to even have such a high key, and the gear is his wallet?

Some people don’t get to experience a Mythic raid and or have mythic gear while the raid is current, but opening your wallet allows you to get those benefits…

Buying your way in, is paying to win… It’s the same for other aspects too… If the only reason you’re in a uni, is because your family “made a donation” that doesn’t mean you didn’t pay your way in because Jacob is still smarter than you…

FIFA is the same, it’s P2W, yes you can get the exact same team by just playing, but it gives you an advantage of time and grind if you open up your wallet… But noooo because that would mean every 12 year old that buys packs should win against everyone right?.. Like come on

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