WoW is P2W - Do you agree?

No it disingenuous to pretend that everyone should value what you consider as win in a game where the notion of winning is next to non-existent.

If by magically start 1-shotting raid bosses you infer that you won’t get more powerful against the challenges the game presents you, then that’s demonstrably false. Gear makes you stronger. You can indirectly buy gear with money.

That’s because there are some common things that ought to be agreeable upon, which are the broader things. And then the room for disagreement exists within the details.
For example, this is an apple:

That’s not up for discussion. What can be discussed is what kind of an apple it is.

Likewise, this is P2W:

That’s not up for discussion. What can be discussed is how it is specifically adapted to fit WoW.

1 Like

You buy that gear. But you still have to interrupt and do mechanics.

Gear wont play for you.

Unless you get an “immortality” cheat code. Like going to old expansion raids.

The gear you “buy” refers to crafted gear mainly. Which is 3 ilvl higher than Hero level gear. And 3 ilvls lower than gear you get in the vault for free. And its limited to 2 pieces only.

If that is what you mean by “winning”, then you are way better off just running your +6s to get your hero gear.

And if you cant do +6s now, you wont be able to do it either by buying a boost all the way to 522 ilvl. Because you will still die to swirlies on a 6+.

Get it? :slight_smile:

1 Like

At this point I’m really wondering if you are worth the forum vacation.

Why because Jito renowned LFR player said so? It absolutely is up for discussion. You however are free to not participate in it.

No obviously.

Your character gets more powerful. The game overwhelmingly revolves around progressing your character’s power through obtaining better gear. You buy the end result with money, skip the progression part, and have a more powerful character that is more capable against the challenges the game presents. That’s P2W.

You are resting a lot of importance upon interrupts and mechanics in a game where the design is to a much larger degree defined by item level. Which you can buy. And even the challenges that rely on mechanics and interrupts can also be bought – that’s what the boost entails. Other players do it for you, for payment.

I’ve had one. It’s quite liberating sometimes. So I say have at it.

Because Jito looks out the window and sees a blue sky and he acknowledges that it is blue. He goes into his kitchen and picks up an apple and he knows it is an apple he is holding because it has all the characteristics of an apple. And he logs into WoW and he sees that it is a P2W game because it is flooded by real-life money transactions and boosters that traditionally over the years have always defined a game as being P2W.

1 Like

As much as I try to understand other views. I simply can’t find a single grain of logic behind this “gear=win”.
If for example take a class which I know absolutely NOTHING on how to play it. Not. A. Single.Thing. Say warrior in my case. Boost it with 522 gear to the teeth…and now all of a sudden I will be doing orange pharses and killing everyone in the arena with a sneeze?

I simply…
dont…
get
this…

While Amonet not only looks out her window but decides to go outside and see what other nuances the world has to offer.

Well thats because you aren’t renowned LFR player Jito who looks out the window and sees P2W.

1 Like

That’s because you’re obsessing over the semantics of a term (P2W) that was invented by a bunch of random 12 year old gamers in the Lord’s year of the early 90’s probably, and then it just got traction on MSN and eventually became popular enough that everyone understood the meaning.
No need to overthink it.

But what is the meaning of that “win”? Well you covered it, didn’t you:

That’s what’s historically been recognized as P2W. That’s why the term was invented. To describe games where companies started selling that kind of boost as a service. It needed an umbrella term, so pay-to-win was invented. Why that? I guess it sounded good, like:

It sounds good. Like 1337 speak. It’s not like it makes you “Elite” in any real manner of speaking, but we get the meaning of the term in the context it’s used and understand why a bunch of 12 year old’s might have decided on that term.

And concludes what? That the simplest of explanations can be wrong if you’re pedantic enough about it?

1 Like

The highest keys done is +22. I have basically BiS gear and my highest key is a +14. There’s an insane big difference in skill level. You can’t just let you ilvl play for you.

You know what? Terms are useless. Who needs them anyway I’m just going to start calling ducks dogs from now on and aplles are now cars.

Both Echo and Limit have said that they have spent money in the past on gold to min/max their characters for the World First Race.

They’re not buying better interrupts or greater understanding of mechanics.

They’re buying a quicker path to rewards by skipping otherwise tedious progression.

And they’re buying that because character power matters.

1 Like

Yes to win the World First Race. Not to win WoW.

2 Likes

Nobody said ilvl does not matter. Completely besides the point. The point is that i can not pay money and Win wow. When it is about RWF it first is about skill. Then have all the goodies like unlimited consumables available.

But pay to win needs to have an advantage. You are paying to win? Where is the win part? Gear is used to actually archive something. But the said person doesn’t even know how to use that gear in the first place.

You are arguing that by using your daddy’s credit card to buy a Ferrari, you will get an unfair advantage towards “drivers who are using old jalopies”.

Yet me, Amonet, Uda are trying to get to get through your stubborn skull is that the kid who will be driving that said car doesn’t know the difference between the gas and break pedal, he can’t even get out of the garage without crashing…twice.
How will he win us if he can’t even drive a straight line?

Well others I’ve discussed with earlier in the thread have been agreeable to all the characteristics of P2W but simply don’t like the term and prefer to call it something else instead. And I’ve said I don’t really mind that one way or the other.

I think pay-to-get-something was brought up by Tah as better fitting.

Again, I don’t mind.

If people look at this :duck: and recognize it as a duck, then I don’t particularly care about a desire to call it a flappyswimmer instead. You do you in that regard.

1 Like

Wow does not look like P2W, i do not recognize it as P2W so it probably is not P2W.

If you are talking about the pay to progress thing, sure you can call it that all you like. I have absolutely no feelings about that buuuuut the thread is called “WoW is P2W - do you agree”. My issue is that you are trying to paint “progression” as a “win” for everyone. That is simply not true, because as I and many others have said WoW does not have a win condition. The WFR absolutely does however, but I digress.

1 Like

The only time I’ve done so was when I saw a hunter wearing a transmog I didn’t recognize and I wanted to see what appearance he was using.