Sure thing.
Yes because I care what I have and I care about what others think of me (to a degree of course).
Yes, me caring about your opinion of ME does not mean I care about YOU.
To put it into perspective, you go to a job interview, you obviously care what the interviewer thinks about you but do you care about what the interviewer had for dinner last night?
No, words and terms have a meaning behind them. They are not a general umbrella you can shove anything under and claim its covers all of Mount Everest.
Find another Buzzword that fits better for WoW, new ones can be made that fits wow better.
If a BDO player leaves the game becuase of its P2W practices and is looking for a game that doesnt have it, would you tell that player “wow is also P2W”? Imo that would just be plain missinrofmation, nothing else.
Oh are you?
Do I have to get a restraining order in place? 
Creepy, dude. Creepy.
That’s so inane to say. They’re affected negatively by RTWF, THAT was the argument and THAT is what is happening. Fact.
That’s a very weird quote that I DEFINITELY never said.
The first part is right though. Elitism is VERY bad.
Anyway, I’ll consider this debate ‘won’ then.
I didn’t even need to pay for it. 
Now, can we just continue on and agree that WoW isn’t P2W?
That’s a lot more fun, honestly.
How so? Am I not allowed to fact check and look for sources to back up my claims?
Again how so? The raid will come out overtuned regardless, and it will take at least a week for the first balance patch to hit. Pretty much nothing changes.
No Tahra don’t go to the kidie table nooooo. Don’t you start eating those crayons, look what they did to Jito.
Do you agree that appearances in this day and age, even in video games like WoW, matter more than anything else? Few people care about how you got something; what matters is the eye candy and the coolness factor?
Stuff that we do has no intrinsic value, i.e nothing really matters?
Perhaps you should read the whole thread 
Nah, joking, it is too long to go through now. But actual reputable definitions from reputable prestigious dictionaries have been provided and no, “win” does not just mean being the sole survivor or completing 100% of something. Also, context matters.
And talking about buzzwords,
I corrected it because I understand mistakes happen and I am not going to be a typo police. But this is an absolute buzzword that has gained traction in the past few years and people regurgitate it about every little thing in every little social space, online or offline. This is a discussion we are having here, we are not putting together an encyclopedia.
Like I’ve said and discussed with others countless times now in this thread, then I don’t have an issue with using another descriptive term for it.
I’ll refer back to Tah’s suggestion to name it pay-to-get-something.
I think others have thrown around pay-to-progress about as well.
Come back to me when you’ve agreed on something and then I’ll happily incorporate it into my writing.
Earlier in the discussion I resorted to [insert desired term] and then people could fill in the blanks with whatever they wanted, but that was a bit excessive and pedagogical. So P2W in lieu of anything else agreed upon. And P2W exists because that was what gamers originally agreed upon. So until something else is agreed upon, P2W it is. That seems only fair.
But they’re not guaranteed to win.
Nope.
But they’re not winning. You can’t win. Didn’t we agree on that earlier? There’s no winning in WoW.
What they’re paying for is to have the necessary gear to kill the boss.
And they seem to get that result every time.
I’m not sure they would if they showed up in questing greens.
So gear matters, even to the best players.
And you can buy it.
Strategy matters more in rwf. People better geared than them can’t even get close even weeks later.
You make it complicated.
Ask yourself : Will buying 2000 herbs with tokens affect the gameplay of other people? Yes or no?
If YES : Then its P2W.
If NO : Then its not P2W.
That is what matters.
Seems obsessive and like I said; creepy.
It feels like someone is looking through my underwear drawer.
Anyway; I have no idea how you’re seeing those logs (since I don’t get involved with anything related to that sort of thing nowadays), but I’m quite sure they’re rubbish anyway; information like that is generally very unreliable. At least it was back in the day: Each player’s log would show different results.
Look… You asked for examples of why RTWF is damaging to the game.
I gave several. It doesn’t matter if something ‘could be like that anyway’, the FACT is, is that RTWF negatively affects balancing - the devs have stated that themselves!
Besides, you’ve already agreed on several of the reasons I gave.
So what more do you want? I was right in my initial statement.
Debate over?
So you’re saying Echo and Limit can beat mythic Fyrakk with green-quality gear?
Okay. What matters in this game? Does anything matter? And to whom and why?
Yeah ! And this is negative !
And it has nothing to do with $$ or tokens by the way. It has to do with blizzard’s policy of tunning raids to RTWF crowd…
So in essence, what matters is : Does it affect gameplay or not? Thats whats important.
Could I beat mythic fyrakk at the end of season 3? No, yet I had far better gear than when those guilds beat fyrakk on mythic.
Does swiping a credit card or getting hefty amounts of gold allow them to hasten the process of downing the bosses?
Does it save time? Does it allow them to get quicker to victory?
It’s an addon people use. You don’t have to use it yourself, you get recorded simply by being in a run with a person using it.
It is very reliable. It can show what your DPS is each and every second of the fight, it can show which abilities you use, when you use and how. It even shows the dmg you have taken and when.
Similarly, the focus on M+ has absolutely affected dungeon and class design. How it affects dungeon design is probably more obvious, but classes are not viewed from the point of view of roleplaying anymore. Balance comes before immersion so some great spell ideas are certainly instantly ditched because M+ comes before anything else.
Please do not take this as me being totally against M+ and wanting it removed. It just is what it is.
So gear has value.
Even to the best players.
Even to you.
Even to me.
And you can buy gear with money.
Even the best players do.
Because it has value.
Even if they are good at interrupting and doing mechanics and know strategies.
Gear still matters.
And therefore there’s an advantage in having a loaded credit card. Because then you can get access to that valuable gear quicker than otherwise. And time is an advantage. That’s why Echo and Limit have had Mythic Fyrakk on farm longer than you have. They killed it sooner. And having as good gear as possible helps kill bosses quicker. It becomes easier to beat the timers and the checks.