For me the best type of gameplay is to have 4-5 core abilities and a bunch of other situational ones , this is when a good player will differ from a great one .
I would love to have more builds though that are actually viable with the current talent structure instead of having a ton of talents that are complete useless. What’s the point of having talents that cannot be used because they gimp you?
1 Like
I would also like to see some pruning.
We have to much abilities and while ofcourse not all of them are needed every fight I would like to have less full bars.
Something I really like is talents like devestator or that paladin talent that does something similar.
I was a big fan of anahilator in df and I don’t play furry since they removed it.
I would like a spec or class that focuses mainly on autoattacks and enhancing them
100% Absolutely not.
From a PvE perspective at least, you’ll be more than fine if you can use 8-10 keybinds and some macro knowledge. Shift modifiers would help, but isn’t needed. Whilst I see why some may feel overwhelmed by the amount of abilities and talent options, I think it’s more so because they don’t know how to create efficient macros rather than that there objectively is too many abilities for you to keybind.
For example, you can macro at least two, sometimes three abilities (on gcd) and just use one keybind for that macro.
Just to show what I mean here’s one for paladins.
#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover,dead]intercession;[@mouseover,help]word of glory;[ ]judgment
Three abilities in one keybind.
There’s also the option to keybind “scroll up” to action page 2, and “scroll down” to action page 1, whilst changing the zoom in/out keybind to “shift/ctrl scroll up/down” if you want a whole extra action page of keybinds to use.
Thats what I said, and all my binds are macros. Still it dont remove that fact that the game shouldnt be like this or that new players wouldnt be left to try cope with all this if the game is just designed bad and bloated with dozen abilities.
The post you quoted me said I have all binds as either help/harm macros or dozen non gcd abilities baked into one, I dont think I have single button on any of my characters that isnt macro somehow.
Come on. I fast counted and am on 26 abilities i am using every dungeon. And that is without totem reset or poison cleanse totem or ghost wolf form. 8-10 hotkeys is not enough.
If those abilities are evenly distributed between offensive and defensive (I assume they’re not, but I don’t know which abilities you’re running), 10 action button keybinds plus the scroll option I mentioned nets you the ability to bind at least 40 abilities without shift modifiers. Without the scroll option and without the shift modifier you can bind a bare minimum of 20 abilities, which is indeed less than 26.
Most likely you can utilize some castsequence macros to cover all you need too. It’s by no means impossible.
I play 17 specs and all have somehow custom binds that differ from the games default gameplay. Nowhere explained to new players that one can improve it with million macro or scripts. Or the fact in first place that why do we have such designs that need to have abilities baked into one? There is no reason other than bad game designing.
Why some classes have abilities that automatically change condition depending factor x and other has to do it with macros? Or why some class does rotation to heal or dps with 3 button and other class has to ramp up with 4 globals to finally amount same what other did with 1-2 global, this is bad designing.
2 Likes
And nothing comes into your mind it maybe are a little too many abilities? Not to mention the game is pushing all new players away like this. And it requires a Phd to start a new spec.
6 Likes
Not at all.
It’s too much for a brand new player, yes, and they should better introduce macros and how they work, and how to change up your UI. They have passive options for those that want less abilities too, but all these abilties have their use and adds to the complexity that makes it interesting for experienced players.
I think wow should do a better job at teaching macros and UI, but having many abilities is one of many things that separates WoW from other games. I’d hate to see it reduces to a 4-10 abilities game just because people haven’t learned how to use macros efficiently.
Alternatively, they can create macros for you. Lightning bolt acts as lightning bolt when used on a hostile target, and acts as healing surge when used on a friendly target. It’s basically the same thing as a macro, but it would feel much weirder and illogical (at least to me). It would also removes player agency when it comes to customizing your UI.
It was mostly something to tie the statement to, I didn’t mean that you weren’t using macros or keybinds. I apologize if it came out that way.
Yes, the game should be better at teaching/introducing how to use the endleas customization that is available in the game. That’s also part what makes WoW so amazing, that you’re able to endlessly customize your playstyle and UI, and you can still do all content with the base UI too (almost all, I suspect Mythic raiding and the higher end of m+ will be next to impossible).
1 Like
I absolutely have no idea how we get from 30+ abilities to 4-10. Nobody is asking for 4-10.
1 Like
I think some are right who said that they make reworks to 1-2 specs now and then and ignore the rest, then as the game progressed and moved forwards regards gameplay or new hero powers or something the specs that were not reworked were left behind.
Like they add new heros to game which come with multiple functionalities baked into same cds or abilities that switch conditions depending something. But all the old classes before it still have to do this with macros or not able to do at all cause they still have alot of things on separate abilities that are on gcd.
Also it just doesnt make sense to me how it is fair that one healer can heal 4mil with one global and another has to do 4 global ramp up to press button to heal half of what the other healed with 1 global. Its basically the same for many dps too. This is also related bad designing.
It vary alot between specs and classes but there is severe button bloat and clunky designs on many specs in the game currently and to play pvp or such one has to create alot macros themselves to make it smoother and faster.
And then theres the talent system which got alot basic abilities as talents for some reason that could just be in the spellbook so I wouldnt have to keep removing stuff from talents constantly which I wont be needing against some class x Im facing and then doing alterations on all the pathways as Im on it etc. If you play pvp this talent system can be very annoying to work with in the some seconds of time windows we have between rounds.
1 Like
Absolutely not.
When players need to use macros to play a game efficiently, the game has big problem.
If the purpose of macro is just to reduce your keybinding or button numbers, then there is no need for a big spellbook from the start.
It is better to reduce the spellbook itself, instead of adding another method (macro) to achieve the same goal.
It makes no sense for Blizzard to make a vast spellbook, then teach players how to make macros to reduce button numbers.
It is contradictory.
5 Likes
Fair enough, that was an exaggeration for effect.
Pruning is suggested to be at a minimum of 20-50%, which would be removing at the very least 6-15 of a specs abilities, which I consider being just way to many. In some extreme cases I can see 2-3 abilities going away, but even that’s too many for a lot of specs.
Sure, I’ll agree to that (I think, I have no idea what your example is based upon).
Whilst I can agree to some specs being clunky I think that’s better treated with a rework rather than outright deleting abilities. I agree with the sentiment that having abilities just for the sake of having a certain amount of abilities is bad, but I’m seriously struggling to think of abilities that currently see no usage but is yet in our spellbook.
From rogue example theres no reason why they have to do macro like this
#showtooltip [nomod,bonusbar:1] sap; [nocombat] stealth
/cast [nomod,bonusbar:1] sap; [nostealth,nocombat] stealth
/cancelaura [mod:shift] Stealth
/cancelaura [mod:shift] Shadow Dance
If sap is only usable with stealth condition either via stealth or shadow dance and stealth cannot be used if one is under shadow dance condition, then sap could be just baked into same button with stealth instead of having separate binds for these. This is just one of the many which I personally do with macros.
Its on the thread on the posts you quoted me from. Sorry I dont want to keep repeat things, its going in circles.
Now Im thinking if you are for real as the whole discussion on the thread so far have been about not putting basic abilities in talents when they should be in spellbook.
Ive also explained it several times now how this creates clunky gameplay when you are removing talents which you do not need against certain opponent x and then having to adjust the entire talent tree according this. And you have few seconds window to do this between shuffle rounds, this is clunky and bad designing. The basic core abilities belong in spellbook not in talents.
For the record; taking away up to 50% of the abilities depending per spec, i do not support either. But i do think i can lose definitely 6 on my resto shaman.
You mean holy paladins holy shock? That does not heal for 4 million with 0 cd’s/set-up done.
It hasn’t been about that only, but go off I guess. I fully agree that things such as an interrupt should be baseline.
We’re at least able somewhat agree on something. Out of curiosity though, which 6 spells do you want removed from resto shaman?
And the amount it heals or not heal exactly affects the points discussed how exactly?
I mean at this point Im just going to stop repeating anything what is said before if you keep replying and quoting to me without reading what has been discussed.
At this point Im only assuming youre being disruptive on purpose. And you know very well what have been mentioned it seems as you knew to mention parts of it.
I think it got too much with adding buttons like that thunder-push up, or nature swiftness, reset totem cooldown, primal wave(not actually using this one myself), move totems…
2 Likes