WOW needs to combine the simplistic nature of Classic with the Accessibility and game modes of Retail

Unless all you want to do is solo level, retail is easier to get into than classic. That isn’t the same as “simple design”.

Hallo, retail player here. I don’t hate classic players, I hate classic players trying to turn the game I like into the game they like even though they already have their version, a hardcore version, a classic classic version and classic but with bonuses version.

Why don’t we ever see a “What classic should learn from retail” thread and have players advocate for a classic version with retail QoL improvements? Cause those guys really need to up their mog game.

PS I dare anyone say “faster leveling” in the classic forum.

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Doesn’t mean we should simplify the game and remove anything resembling difficulty

I enjoy both and having more modern twists to Classic such as SoD are what makes it interesting to me, but making retail more Classic like not so much.

That is straight up Copium bro.

I would enjoy a layer of retail where I could play with the old classes.

Everyone has a favorite, for me Wrath prot pally, resto druid and survival hunter are / were really enjoyable, as well as vanilla frost mage for outdoors (reactive utility style).

I don’t always enjoy later versions, they kept adding stuff, in return each existing ability lost relevance (a bit, or entirely).

That could be theoretically possible, playing together with modern specs.
One thing is, neither of those has a (frequent) interrupt. As a tank, my oh snap buttons are two taunts and some bubbles. As a healer, Tranquility and quick heals. As a mage, I can reduce pack complexity with sheep (and the interrupt every 30s or so). There absolutely are things to interrupt in Wrath, but they are less binary, more optional.

The other thing is dungeon pacing.
As a Wrath prot pally I can tank 3-4 creatures reliably. One pack. Same about interrupts, each pack has something - a silence, a knockback. That way, I feel like we’re playing chess. Pulling 3-5 packs together and just mass AoE sounds cheap gameplay.

The problem with new players has nothing to do with how the game is designed simplistically or not.

The problem is that the same zones are used for people to power-level their alts and to introduce new players into the game. Blizzard cant cater to both at the same time, and it makes for a horrible experience for both parties involved.

As for this discussion on “classic elements” need to be in retail I agree with many others. Leave Retail as it is. If I liked classic in any way, I would be playing classic already. No need to transform Retail.

I played in vanilla. and i had fun.
I played in TBC. and i had fun
I played in Wotlk. and i had fun
I played in Cata. and i had (cough) fun.

But no way NO WAY i wanna experience that kind of game now. never. ever. Retail is another game and must remain different. Its sometimes wrong? yes. but back to the past (even if we speak of some parts of the game) would be a mistake.

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So no different from classic which you just praised for being friendly to new players?

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It is YOUR opinion that new players won’t be playing. Yet every day we see new players in newcomer chat that we help and guide.

I personally don’t buy into the whole Classic has more players thing at all, this is something we only see Classic players come and claim. An off the record comment from a Dev said the opposite.

Most retail players do not want to those aspects in Retail. The two games appeal to different players because of the differences. It does not pay to morph one into a copy of the other.

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Question is if you would find other people to play the older iteration together. I doubt so, the game would be tuned around the current up-to-date setup of classes, and I am just imagining what would it be if I entered like normal heroic dungeon and tanked 3-4 mobs. I think group members would report me for griefing.

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It isn’t, and I like having options.

My assumption is that Classic doesn’t have more players than retail purely because of the attrition that happens mainly in SoD, but to lesser extent in ERA.

There is brutal gatekeeping and threshold for entry required, compared to Classic PvErs/PvPers we retailers are like, in diapers living the plushie dream of our WoW life.
And I say that as mythic raider player.

A lot of people who are really casual, which might be a lot for Classic, are pushed outside by the community for gatekeeping in raids, premade stomping in BG, premade honor/hour ratio groups in World PvP events, speedrunning leveling dungeons ad nauseam etc. And some of them just say - I don’t have time for this.
And on our side, it is true that we don’t even know what truly casual players in retail do because we will never see them in RIO charts or logs. There may be more then 50-70% of players never engaging in any PvE or PVP content and they have their own game, nobody gatekeeps them and they can enjoy whatever without anyone crossing their path.

Era has struggled on and off since the other Classic Expansions and all the shoot off seasonal modes were introduced.

Saw a comment the other day that Era is really dead still. They have really tried by connecting up a load of realms etc. They had a much smarter approach with SoD where they just have two realms and layer up as much as needed. So it copes much better when the playerbase numbers fluctuate.

They are doing a load of changes for Classic Wrath going into Cataclysm as well to try and help.

Retail doesn’t suffer as we’re all sharded together anyway, I think it’s great going forward in TWW we will even be able to have guilds without being realm based. No more needing to move realm etc.

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That’s because in the end meta works. Only that in classic you can actually circumvent it due of content being simple.

Yesterday I did my first gnome in a pug without setting foot ever.

We cleared the place in less than 2h.

Yes we had 4-5 wipes and for me is not an issue, but for most people in retail and classic alike that’s too much for them, because they only value their time and can’t actually comprehend that every person is different an to learn a particular task can require them more or less time.

Is that how people actually want it - World of Diablo, slaying masses of meaningless creatures, big numbers, more more, wah wah - or is it merely a consequence of content being easy and people trying to maximise xp/hour?

What doesn’t click together in my head about retail, is the contrast between (my understanding of) M+ and normal.

Sure, when people are used to EZ mode (like at the end of Wrath, doing heroics in ICC gear, 10x dps, 3x health), they whine about challenge like an entire pig farm.
(The motivation: quick daily emblems, justice, xp, whatever.)
New content is always hard in a power creep game.

Anyway. Putting some retail dungeons / zones into whichever classic version might work as a cheap Classic+.

I think it might be a bit of both options. We will see how will affect this the big change of dungeon difficulty in next season.

I forecast it will be little tougher on the lower end and better for group compositions on the higher end.

I think that trying to make normal etc dungeons “harder” or more “meaningful” would only harm more casual playerbase.

KEKW 10 chars

yes more simple and modern at the same time.
sadly wow is faar away from its roots and the mysterious vibe of the game,.
its childish.
its full of bots. gold sellers and account sellers groups. and boosters.,
stroy is for 10 years old.
war is removed from the game.
and whenever you complain they mute or remove you or mvps come to suffocate you . it sad. people should change this dark toxic behavior

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I’m not so sure, every elemental storm I see literal genocide in it’s location atm.