What part of classic are we talking about here? SoD? Vanilla Era? Wrath Classic? Cata classic in a few months? Hardcore even? (probably not).
I mean there’s so much types of classic that already clash that retail is the only one with Dragonflight that at least holds true to itself. I don’t mean to say classic is bad, I play it myself, but using ‘classic’ as a general term is laughable.
Boring how? As in a loads of ways to get gear? As apposed to classic - let’s use the era template here - of having only one boss that drops your bis weapon and having 10 others in the raid that also need it? To me that is boring. Wrath classic is already kinda like retail with all the badges and multiple difficulties.
DF gives me alternatives and lets me upgrade them in a pretty straighforward system. You make it sound like rocketscience, which it isnt.
Extremely? Again only having one boss in the entire game that drops your bis item is bad design in the modern age.
It is. There’s loads of people leveling alts in retail. Every season I do it multiple times, for various reasons. Stop implying leveling is worthless just because it’s faster than the slog you have on era.
The new talent system literally is inspired by vanilla talent trees, just better and less filler.
It’s something people have asked for a long time.
Aside from the CC you just described Classic… The funny thing is you don’t even realize it. Vanilla had huge button bloat. The bars on my classic 60 pala are filled to the brim with stuff. Guess how much of that I actually use?
As a ‘guide’ in retail, a common theme comes up a lot and that is ‘I don’t know what I am supposed to be doing’ or ‘I don’t know where to go’ Retail, is not new player friendly at all and this enormous bloat in the game puts people off from playing it.
Retail needs new players or the playerbase stagnates, which is absolutely what we do not need. Long term players understand the game intricacies better because they are always upto date with whats going on.
The longevity of the game is solely derived from how many people are playing and if Blizzard cant entice new players to the game because the design is too overly complicated and bloated, then that is a real issue. Simplicity is what brings players to games. The game needs a major overhaul on how its designed. Or essentially it needs a reboot, which I think is what SoD is trying to be. Even better would be a WoW 2, but that is never going to happen.
Issue with retail not being explained to new player properly is issue as old as WoW itself. Blizz just can’t seem to understand the learning process and basics of pedagogy.
Maybe they think that players will supply this with community-based teaching new players?
There is significant deficiency in explanations even for us old timers.
I believe they throw this responsibly to community, as they do with UI, with solving problem in the game, with figuring out what drops from where, with organizing end-game content runs, etc.
I wouldn’t mind some class simplification, but it could easily be overdone.
Honestly, the big tripping point I keep hearing about from new/returning players is they bumble their way to 70, then suddenly there’s dozens of square !s on the map but 3/4 of them don’t actually lead to anything good because they were for S1 and S2. There’s no good way of ordering events chronologically and even if you find a guide to help, you plod through hours of unrewarded storyline before you get anything close to endgame.
Meanwhile if you didn’t join a guild/community, it’s not very clear where all the other players are hiding or that the actual endgame is instanced content. I can imagine people wandering around the world thinking “is this it?”
At this point I feel like each major patch needs to come with a cutscene to summarise what happened in the previous one - even if it is some weary old narrator with a pile of books who just talks to the camera for a couple of minutes. And we definitely need some quest log features that would show our incomplete square ! quests as logical groups with short summaries, info about what you get at the end of it, which order they appeared in-game, and which contain plot but are no longer relevant in the present patch.
The ideal state would be an easily reviewed list of plotlines, and being able to make personal choices about whether to tackle them in order, or do the current season ones first to open up endgame more, and then go back to the earlier ones if that is of interest to the individual - or set them to be hidden so you don’t get barraged by map markers for things you don’t want to do.
It’s not that they didn’t make some kind of sense to play through first time, it’s just that the presentation if you come to it all late in an expansion is atrocious.
Intressting that you got likes for the no logic comment. Ofcourse the population it once had isnt coming back for a 20 year old remake of the game, were you really expecting that ? jesus the big brain. We want a new game with the old formula, hope thats not too hard to grasp for ya. You say retail people dont want to change classic. But thats were the irony is. You already have. Classic were once retail and you’ve changed it to the dress up lobby simulator game it is today. We dont want that.
The game evolved with the times to suit the needs of its players. Take LFR for example, even though most people hate it (including me), it was introduced because such a small handful of people were experiencing the raids, you know those huge instances that take up god knows how much development time across multiple departments. Absolutely no question that LFR needs to be improved or retooled, however it is also undeniable that it is a net positive for the game. Another thing that people hate is sharding and CRZ, is it wonky yes, does it make the game more playable for people on low pop realms also yes. If it takes sacrificing “server communities” in order to somewhat improve the experience of players that got their servers demolished thanks to migration or people quitting, I will take that deal 1000 times over.
And that is only talking about some of the controversial changes, without going into the straight up hits like transmog and dragonriding, that only a handful of people have issues with.
And no we retail people do not want to change your game. We retail people do not care how much development goes into your game. If Classic were to have a idk more revamped MoP version that is more in-line with what the vanilla-WotLK era was in terms of game design, we wouldn care, If Classic were not to have WoD but instead a completely brand new expansion again with all the game design and philosophies of classic, we still wouldn’t care, we might try it but we wouldn’t care. In fact if Classic were to die tomorrow, most of us would probably be upset because we would have to deal sanctimonious hypocritical jackasses again.
So no we are not trying to change your game. We don’t even hate you, we hate that you are trying to change the game we like and that you live in echo chamber trying to paint retail players as villains when in fact you guys are the one flinging poop at the other side.
The game evolved ? How is it evolving when it doesnt have the current playerbase that it used to have. Thats more like devolving. The game was hijacked by activision in 2009 for example that made the game more accessible and less of an RPG as you mentioned. So thats where people like YOU have changed the game, not us. You talk about how these changes are good but when it splitt up the community i dont get it. " we hate that you are trying to change the game". Yeah and we hate you for that you CHANGED the game.
I know you dont care about the classic games, infact what you dont understand is that most classic people would rather not play classic remakes but new WoW games that can appeal to that audience like i said before.
People asking what to do in Newcomer chat is no different to when we had to ask friends and guildies back when Classic was current. You could even ask in general chat.
The game explains far more now than it ever did when I started playing (TBC). Everyone is a noob when they start and has no idea where to go or what to do. I don’t know why people are so fast to forget those days. I know it’s a long time ago for some of us.
Yes coming into any expansion late is always going to be more challenging. You also face the problem that some want to do all the campaigns and see it all and others want to be able to catch up to the latest. Some care about what happened and lead to the previous raids and others just want to jump straight in to whatever activity they’ve wanted to do.
I will never understand that Classic players can’t comprehend that many of the things they like about Classic are the exact reasons why we do not play Classic. Or not beyond a bit of a dabble at the start then go back to Retail thanking our lucky stars that our game isn’t like that.
I totally understood when Classic was in development and the adamant shouts of #NOCHANGES because they wanted the original back. It’s very ironic to consistently read that some want to inflict things we will hate from Classic on Retail. We are Classic evolved. I get that some Classic players may not like Retail but that still doesn’t make it right wanting to change a game people like because it’s not classic, it’s evolved.
Sub count and evolution are 2 different things, and if you cannot make a difference between those two things I feel very sad for you. As for why WoW doesn’t have the 12 mil subs, multiple reasons the most notable being that THE MMO GENRE DOES NOT APPEAL TO NEW GENERATIONS.
Well I haven’t, but I am pretty sure that Punnyelf holds all the cards at Blizzard HQ, the green text is proof.
Then keep asking for that instead of changing retail you potato person, you have retail players support on this one.
I’m just a player , I’m not employed by Blizz, they post in blue.
However the direction the game takes is down to the Devs. We’ve seen how they’ve often planned out future expansions, or the themes of them in advance. They experiment, try to shake things up, give us something new so that it’s not always the same etc.
Not everything they do goes down well with the playerbase but they have had to get better with listening to the playerbase. I don’t envy them though, we don’t all want the same thing. We want wildly different things at times.
Sometimes you watch BlizzCon or a presentation on what’s to come and you’re like wow that sounds great, and someone else will feel like they are totally ignored.
Even though I hated Plunderstorm, others enjoyed it but you can’t fault Blizzard for trying something different. I don’t know how successful it has or hasn’t been. I did my grind in the first two days and never went back. I have guildies who are still playing now.
A sub count usually means how popular or liked the game is. For me evolving is a natural cause of the game in which it is devloping along with its player base, not becoming smaller. TBC to WOTLK, thats evolving. An upgrade of the previous games that also the people seem to like.
You havent changed the game, but people like minded as you have over the years. You say i have retail support on this but how can i have its support when you also say you dont want to change retail, i dont get it. For the game to evolve, retail HAS to change.
Amazing, I couldn’t have spelled it out for you clearer and somehow you completely missed the point.
WE retail players do not want the classic approach. You classic players want a new game with the classic approach. Advocate for a new expansion in Classic that isn’t rehash of retails old expansions. Idk ask Wrath of the Twilight Hammer expansion for classic of Warlord of Northrend. New story, new zones, new level cap, same classic design (ofc you must first start paying for your expansions in order to finance such a product). On that you have my and pretty much every retail players full support.
But my man, do you really think Blizzard would have the capacity to release a whole new expansion to both Retail AND classic ? I dont think thats realistic for them to do lmao.
i wonder what you mean about wolk classic being dead when you have to of people leveling alts there doing dungeons for gear and a lot of icc runs going.
the only thing that died is 12/12 hc runs because they are all turned into GDKP - which is natural so late in tiers.
but there are still many 11/12 hc pugs which are just not good neough to be turned into gdkp
my usual discord pug went on break till cata - i logged in on wednesday and without problem found 11/12 hc and then yesterday nice 8/12 hc which could have been 10 or 10 /12 hc if blizzard didnt mess servers and if we werent down 1 healer and 1 dps and didnt just 23 man it
, I’m not employed by Blizz, they post in blue.
