WoW Shadowlands 9.2: Why the player base are so toxic, and why i'm so disappointed with the game in general

As an old player that has seen WoW through its glory days, played every expansion to some degree and has had some of the greatest moments in World of Warcraft, i’m utterly disappointed in the state of the game and the changes that have been made to the gameplay and the gaming culture in general. I’ll state my reasons below, and i encourage others to express their concerns here in this post, so blizzard can reflect on the state of the game and hopefully make it better in the future.

Patch 9.2 has come out and i’ve decided to stop playing the game as i find the ending to Shadowlands very disappointing. Shadowlands is an expansion that started off very well with its exciting new maps and campaigns, but slowly deteriorated due to the lack of content to keep players interested, come 9.1 with the Sanctum of Domination raid that made the expansion better. The time lag from 9.1 to 9.2 was so significant that it bored most of the player base i was in contact with and the ones that stayed on mostly grinded mythic plus dungeons, raids or pvp with no new exciting content. Come 9.2, the introduction of Zereth Mortis and the new Sepulcher of the First Ones raid was an utter mess. The raid is unexciting, and combines many aspects that players have seen before, just displayed in a slightly different context. The raid is long, dragged out by developers each week locking out raid finder/heroic at the beginning, or cross realm mythic. A lot of the content is locked per week, which is no fun for gamers literally waiting for the next week. The number of players i know creating alts for the sake of creating alts because they’ve already finished all the content is staggering. That is just the tip of the iceberg and anyone who would like to add onto this I encourage you to, i can’t cover everything.

The main topic of discussion i’d like to address is the toxicity now prevalent both in high level play, normal play, and progression play. For any new Wow players i would like to tell you that there was a time when the game was not toxic at all ( Back in Vanilla, TBC and WoTLK). Yes, not a single bit. Communities were very friendly, open to trying out the game, adventurous and free-spirited. The concept of dungeons and raid was never competitive, it was only done for completion, and maybe a couple repeats for specific gear sets. It was actually the dungeons and raids that brought people together rather than divide people. Friends and family working together, and if the raid wiped or the dungeon wiped, people would laugh, not curse. Wow was never a toxic game. Toxic games were reserved for shooter games, but it never crossed over to the MMORPG world. This was about 10-15 years ago.

Now I have seen the game become so increasingly toxic that it brings me to tears knowing that i have to hold onto my memories and never revisit them in a game i love so much. The player base is different, people’s attitudes are different, the gaming culture is different, even the campaigns are different. Everything is different.

So why is the game so toxic? I believe i now know the answer, and i am only speaking the truth as i see it:

  1. The emphasis on perfection: This is a NEW concept in wow that never existed originally. We can see this in many parts of the game now, especially mythic plus and raiding. Perfection stresses out players, and the whole goal of the game now seems to be about getting better gear, testing out different dps builds to get the highest dps possible, practicing tanking/healing strategies. Simcrafting. Reputation grinding, World Boss Grinding, Creating new alts to perfect every spec of the game.
    Players simply do not want to talk to other players that aren’t as hungry for perfection as they are and so create communities that blacklist ‘bad’ players and keep perfectionist players to push themselves. There is a general consensus that in order to even play the game, you need to be ‘good’ at the game, and to be ‘good’ at the game, you need to be the ‘best’ at the game ( as in the top 100 players in the world). Bad players are ousted before they are given a chance, and good players do not want to play with bad players. So when a bad player is invited into a raid or a dungeon, they get toxic abuse from so called ‘good’ players, and if a good player is invited into a raid or dungeon with lots of bad players, they hurl toxic abuse at the bad players. The game has been segregated because of the need for perfection or ‘the ideal’ which has destroyed players experiences, and everyone gets abused in this system. I cannot count how many times i have seen players ragequit the game because of ‘not being good enough’, including myself to some extent.

  2. Cancel Culture: This is a very big problem in WoW, it is almost a simulated 1984. Everything you do in wow gets recorded now, your dps gets logged, your wipes on bosses gets logged, your mythic score gets logged, your raid completion gets logged, even your dps rotation gets logged. Even all the moves that your player can do is in full view for everyone else in the game who has the right addons to inspect exactly what you are doing, every single movement you’re making. There is no room to make a mistake, and if you do, you get kicked, banned, muted, ignored by your group, and everyone in the group follows suit because they are afraid to be kicked themselves in case they accidentally invite you again, which would obviously be a mistake. I have literally noticed how quick players respond to good runs and bad runs. Whenever i do a good run or led a good raid, for SOME reason i get thousands of responses from players asking and begging me to let them join the raid or run. Whenever we wipe on a boss or something goes wrong, all players leave the group, and for some reason, i get no one wanting to join the raid at all for a very long time. I could relist/requeue after a day and still nothing. That is no coincidence at all. There is some system ( not by Blizzard, maybe there are addons) that is logging all of this and influencing players decisions on who they want to spend time with and who they don’t ( only those in the know would know) . You simply get cancelled if you make any mistake. This obviously drives a lot of toxicity whenever there is a wipe or problem in the raid. Players fight for their lives and have huge arguments because they don’t want to get cancelled. I have tried every alternative to arguing and unfortunately this is the best strategy to stay in a raid. To ‘pretend you know everything and everyone else is wrong’.

  3. High tier guilds are elitist and authoritarian: Obviously saying this will get me cancelled, but it’s true. We have little dictators running CE guilds, and i hate the phrase CE ( cutting edge) back to my original point on perfectionism. They are run like cults or gangs, it’s very mafia/ gang-like. The cancel culture is everywhere here, and i believe this is where the cancel culture behaviour starts. The emphasis of control and cutting out weeds from the guild ( each with their own shady strategy to get rid of people) is manifest. To live under fear and control by your own guild that is supposed to help you enjoy the game teaches the negative in this game and that the only way to succeed is to be like them. I don’t really understand what’s bonding people in these guilds, the psychology is far too complex for me to understand. Most of what i see are negative messages being thrown around. I believe a lot of the bonding in guilds happens outside of the game that i have not participated in.

  4. Blizzard locking content: This is just unnecessary. Stopping players from completing the game ruins the gaming experience for everyone. Imagine if you had to watch a movie in 10 installments, where you would see the first part on the first week, and you had to buy a ticket to see the 2nd part of the same movie the next week. It leaves players very unsatisfied with the game, and when they’re sitting around doing nothing, they turn violent and toxic. Release the content, why are we holding patch content in week installments? It’s ridiculous.

  5. The Competitive Scene: I think this hits the nails into the coffin. Mythic + and mythic raiding hold the highest gear in the game. So naturally everyone is drawn towards mythic + and mythic raiding, there is nothing else in the game that matters more anymore. I have tried to work my way up the ladder to complete high level +20 keys and mythic raiding, and i can tell you there is a point where content is permanently locked from you that you can never attain, for casual players ( now defined as playing every day for 4 hours). With hard work and determination, you cannot succeed by yourself, which is the most annoying part of this competitive scene. Believe me, i have tried very hard. To succeed in the game does not require you to be the best player. It requires you to have a mindset that ticks all the boxes i mentioned before: A drive for perfectionism that you make very obvious in your behaviour, high tier guilds that carry you if you do everything they say, and to engage in cancel culture. People will support this and your complicity in their behaviour and will reward you with mythic raid runs, mythic dungeons on high tier keys. It is almost a form of payment. If you are not these kinds of people, you will never make it to the final boss on a mythic raid or a +30.

  6. Outside of the competitive scene, there is nothing else exciting. Professions Blizzard oh my gosh what have you done to them? It’s nothing more than a grinding exercise. Campaigns are boring. The storyline doesn’t make any sense ( and don’t pretend you understand what’s going on, you don’t). There are no exciting events, or other player content that people can engage and just have fun, so players who don’t want to engage in toxic communities are forced to by the nature of the game being centered around it, which brings me to my next point.

  7. Anti-Fun. How many times have you heard this in a raid/dungeon. ‘Wow is not for fun’. ‘Go play mario kart if you want to have fun’. ‘Wow is not a game, it is very serious’. ‘We’re not here to have fun, focus and stop getting it wrong’. They’re right, Wow is like life to many players, and they take it so seriously now. So anything toxic becomes more toxic, because people take the insults personally.

  8. Pugs. Raid finder. People can join a raid and ruin it, it happened today. People do not listen in pugs for some reason, they do not co-operate at all. There is no accountability at all, and people do not feel invested in pugs so they treat others like trash, which is a result of the guild system i believe that has changed over the years in its culture. Anyone who knows nothing about the game will enlist on a raid finder or a pug to then receive unwanted abuse for the pettiest reasons.

I could go on but i think i’ve made my points. How should blizzard solve this? Remove high-level competitive play completely, that’s what’s driving all the toxic behaviour. Develop the campaigns and side questing more with detours from the questline so players can engage in special events or games or thematic play that’s experienced in the world. This should be the most exciting part of the game. Pugs and raid finder are a disaster and should be removed. Players should make friends with people on their realm, on their adventures, so you get more intimate relationships. Teaming up with people cross-realm means nothing. Allow the highest gear to be obtainable outside of dungeons and raids. There should be a more creative system to obtaining gear than dungeons or raids, perhaps rewards for quests that take you on a journey, or rare drops that are actually worth something, or for teaming up with people and showing good sportsmanship. This is the sort of system we need. Speed breeds toxicity, the game needs to slow down in its pace ( and i do not mean locking content) focusing on storyline and the MMORPG experience of exploring new worlds and actually caring about the story and the characters involved in it. You need a creative and literary team!

I really hope Blizzard fixes the game in the right way, and i pray for everyone else in the game that you get some enjoyment out of it in the way i described in the beginning.

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What an utter load of drivel.

I did laugh at the elitist authoritarian little dictators bit though. Clearly well informed all round.

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Damn, you really have something against CE guilds to go off on them so hard with all these stuff.

I mean, try winning a worldwide race without being elitist and only accepting and/or keeping the best. You wouldn’t, they wouldn’t, no one would. Gray parse people won’t suddenly become amazing and do well in an environment where people have to do their best even after 15 hours of raiding, for days/weeks.

The dictator bit is just funny. I don’t think you have the experience with every single (most likely you don’t have any kind of experience with any) CE guild in order to make that claim.

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Now I have seen the game become so increasingly toxic that it brings me to tears knowing that i have to hold onto my memories and never revisit them in a game i love so much. The player base is different, people’s attitudes are different, the gaming culture is different, even the campaigns are different. Everything is different.

I hate that I agree with this so much. Only thing I’d want along side better changes to the game is to bring the old community or better yet have a brand new community with a more positive attitude. I remember how easy it was to make friends and talk to people back in wotlk and now i don’t think even “social” guilds talk in /g in all honesty.
The game might be a MMORPG but really it’s just a single player RPG with players running around whom you have to play “with” to do any sort of instanced content but if anything just think of them as bots because i highly doubt you’ll get anything human out of the players you play with. Even in raiding guilds they just get together to do the raid nothing more, can’t remember the last time i saw a guild ad that was more than just their raid progression. What’s worse is that I can recall enough times where people try to be social but get hit with toxicity by players who for whatever reason enjoy this solo game I assume?

The only thing I can say is to be the change you want to happen, even if it falls on deaf ears or you get backlash for doing so. I’m sure at least one person in your group/raid will be happy to see someone being human for a change.

It’s actually sad when wow players go play other mmos and they’re terrified about being yelled at for learning new things and making mistakes.

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Another One on the Internet that has never regulary experienced Adversity in Being Mentally Challenged in General IRL or Online, basically trying to Police WoWs Playerbase.

TOPKEK.

Maybe if you don’t have Thick Skin you shouldn’t touch Online Games in General, these things became a thing in Video Games when the Rise of Can*er Media became a thing Online.

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WoW’s toxicity is literally nothing after survived years of competitive leauge and some CSGO with it.

Are you sure you played WoW back then…

Are you REALLY trying to convince people there was no toxicity in Vanilla to WotLK?

The real problem lies in that WoW has changed over the years.

Players like you haven’t, which is why you and they always, ALWAYS, wax lyrical about vanilla to WotLK and spout complete rubbish such as,

because you don’t like the changes WoW has HAD to make to keep itself afloat.

If WoW was to be released today as it was on the first day of Vanilla it would be dead in 4 months.

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Generally speaking the online world has gotten more toxic in many ways over the years so naturally this was going to happen with online gaming too.

I think it’s not really fair to blame the playerbase here, player behaviour is pretty much controlled by game design decisions and for whatever boneheaded reason the dev team seem to have decided that they want a more difficult and more competitive game, inevitably that means a less friendly and for the most part less enjoyable experience for the older WoW audience.

It’s almost as though they are designing for an audience that for the most part isn’t interested in moving to WoW and are happy to alienate a lot of the audience that actually do have.

A bit stupid really. The dev team seem to really want a great esports title but fail miserably to attract those players whilst alienating the players they already have.

Game designers need swapping out to fix this.

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Some people call those people boomers.

Take off the rose tinted glasses first of all… You never played WOTLK or you wouldn’t say it was not toxic, you ever heard of GEAR SCORE which existed then and prevented you from taking part in anything if you fell behind the curve. It’s not the game design that has made the game more toxic it’s the players because if you played classic tbc you would know that it’s ten times more toxic than retail.

There is no need to remove the high level competitive content, they just need to hire more staff so they can develop more casual non competitive content to go along with the more competitive elements of the game. They should not just remove the elements that you don’t like, that shows your selfish entitled mindset coming through.

Seems like another case of someone just getting declined from ten mythic plus groups and coming on the forum in tears of rage instead of trying to find friends to play the game with on discord/forums who will group with you no matter what your rio is.

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You should join our guild, Friendship Before Glory, Nagrand EU its over 10 years old and going strong.
We raid for fun, bring whatever toon you like doesn’t matter, no elitism, people help each other, support each other, group up play solo your choice. We have all play styles in the guild, from collectors to raid loggers to pvp to m+ low and high keys. We laugh at wipes.

The good guilds are out there but they are very hard to find these days.

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This is true lmao
During my break from WoW I bought a Nintendo Switch and Pokemon Legends: Arceus. I played 120 hours in that game and loved every second of it. But I’m already pulling my hairs after 6 days of patch 9.2 because gearing my alts for PvP is so slow.

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WoW was always toxic imo (MMO players aren’t famous for their amazing social skills); but it definitely feels worse now.

Fierce competition, addons that allow us to stalk and breathe down each others’ neck constantly breeds toxicity. There’s a reason why ‘that other MMO that must not be named’ has strict rules regarding things like damage meters.

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I started in TBC and the playerbase was a toxic cesspit to me as a new player. It’s a miracle I kept playing tbh.

So I don’t buy into this whole, in the past it was all wonderful.

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From the bulk of your posts a few things come to mind for me:

  1. If you did play vanilla to WOTLK, then you were playing in a very isolated bubble. People were toxic even during that time (I recall my DK was almost thrown out of a heroic dungeon because the tank said I haven’t the gearscore for it and should go beep off to do normals until I am geared enough) but the playerbase were also much bigger, which saturated players of varying skill levels enough that this wasn’t prevalent to notice.

  2. I am sorry, but if you really think that people are using addons to ‘blacklist’ people after making a mistake in a raid then all I can say is that you may suffer from paranoia to some extent. People leave raids because it is easy for them to do so (no ID lockout on normal/heroic raids have caused this, basically) without drawbacks. The reason why people do not fill back up is simply due to boss kill numbers: For normal and heroic people will not join for the third or fourth boss for a number of reasons. They either need loot from the previous bosses, or they want to do a fresh run. The more bosses you have down, the harder it is to find replacement for those that leave.

  3. I think you are confusing CE guilds with your average guilds you run in with. Those who play in high end CE barely if ever interract with the general playerbase, and if they do they do not comment in chat at all. If they craptalk they do it within their own discord. Even in lower quality mythic guilds it is not a bad thing if you aren’t up to par with everyone else, but then you should expect that on tougher bosses you will be sat out until the boss is on farm.

  4. This is precisely being done to avoid those with less time on their hands to fall behind and be excluded from high-end content by those who can afford to spend more time in the game. This in a way also helps regulate what is happening in the PuG scene.

  5. There is nothing bad about having an end-game goal to thrive for. The issue is when people do not recognise, or do not want to accept what their skill level, and thus gear level is under the notion that “It is just a game, I pay for it, I should get everything accessible.” Just like everywhere else, connections help you out better than anything else, but it also really helps if you are semi competent at your class as well. My guild has many casual level players who do not thrive for BiS gear or perfectionism, but they do take the time to know their class enough to do well in the content they want to participate in.

  6. This we know about, and people raised this issue a number of times to Blizzard. There should be more content for the casual playerbase to participate in.

  7. I think this stems from the fact that MMOs were always designed with grinds in mind. PvPers have to participate in PvE for specific pieces, while raiders who only want to raid have to delve into M+ in order to gear and vice versa. It breeds this notion that it is acceptable to do unfun things in the game in order to get to the fun parts of the game for them.

  8. Pugs these days are a mixture of players who do not want to be part of guilds, loners, or people who want to gear their alts. People keep only a single thing in mind: itemlevel, and anything that gets between them and gear is considered an enemy. I feel that this went further downhill in Shadowlands more than before, and sensible people always advised others to try and find a guild for themselves, to get into an environment where they can learn and experience the better parts of the game.

I guess that is partly to do with today’s culture, where we are conditioned to be innovative and self taught in order to get forward in life.

Instead of removing competitive gameplay they should focus on giving alternatives for people who do not engage in said competitive content. Those who do however should understand what their limits are. If they want to strive to push higher than what their limits are then they need to learn to improve.

People have this notion that it is a bad thing to settle with key level 5 or 6, which is partially being driven by the messed up gear progression paths we have these days.

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its a huge wall of text which could be summed up by

game is much more toxic because its overtuned to the sky and its affecting whole game negatively

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:smiley: bruuuh this hurt my brain
everything you said about toxicy is completely FALSE and you are a liar

you say perfectionist gameplay or whatever
but people req. from you to be DECENT and by decent i mean just basic things
like if you see green circle underneath you stop casting spell and move
basic things like when tank is pulling you don’t open with all CDS
because its logic to give him at least 2 sec to put the pack together
back in the day it was wait till tank will build aggro on boss
basic things like when there is one mob far away from pack you are killing
if you have interupt you intetupt the mob and mob will come to tank
theere is many many more things like that
it’s logical that when you going into DUNGEON you bring potions and you have enchanted gear etc
and when there is DMG spike or something and you see healer struggling its basic knowlegde taht you will help your healer
with potions and all your def and selfhealing toolkit

We can talk about this for years
and you will never come out as the person that is RIGHT
this is FACT that people don’t exlude you from wow because you are bad
but because you are refusing to LEARN
i saw that thousand times over the years that people were replaced in raid because they couldn’t do simple mechanic like don’t stand in front of BOSS
and then these people were mad because OMG he replaced me he is TOXIC raid leader
but you refuse to aknowledge that you did something wrong 10 times in row even tho someone told you not to.

stop acting like victim :smiley:
it’s pathetic

Just play FFXIV. There is literally nothing good about WoW anymore. The only people still playing are the boomers who played for over 10 years and they need something to do similar to how grandmas knit so they go and do their mount farms telling themselves it is fun or they raid log 3 times a week for an achievement and the second they get it they vanish into thin air, because they never enjoyed playing the actual game.
It’s the same thing for you OP. You could just play something else but instead you write this wall of text… for what? If you think that devs will read this you are plain delusional.

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your perception might change once you reach 60.
I would normally continue with “jokes aside…” but then nothing would be left of your post