WW going into Midnight

Classes Monk
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This post was originally deleted and banned by US CS - go figure.
Edit: Also a new post about SEF on US forums https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/insane-sef-bugs-guaranteed-dps-losses-and-other-unreal-issues-deletesef/2166163

You’d think with MoP classic that it would make way for Pandaren or Monk updates. The attention BrM got isn’t much.

All WW got is a staged spell that breaks and potentially gets you killed when its always used at 1 bar completely defeating it being a staged spell to begin with… Before that we got Darting Hurricane which was really fun but that was taken away what felt like immediately…

Seri made a comment along suggesting SW that Chi burst could become a staged spell where there are actual optimal windows for stage 1, 2, 3, 4 rather than always sending on 1.

Devs did this with Frost Dks breath… Why is WW being overlooked again.

Maybe The Last Titan will have balance/order themes which somewhat line up with monk but are WW players expected to keep “hoping” we’ll get meaningful changes instead of another expansion of bare minimum slop?

How long do people have to complain about WW for something to change…

WW is a resource-juggling, APM-heavy, proc-reactive spec with peaks in BFA, SL where a ‘good’ WW makes it seem godlike which then dwarfs the rest of the WW player base once its brought inline. This fundamentally needs to change. I’ve said time and time again the effort, skill and time needed to play this spec isn’t worth it.

  • WW is technically very mobile, but in practice it doesn’t convert that mobility into real fight advantages.
  • DK is slow but shrugs mechanics with AMS/IBF/DA
  • Rogues eat mechanics with Cloak/Evasion/Feint
  • WW? You can teleport/kick things, but those tools don’t solve raid DPS checks, survivability issues and REAL utility gaps.
  • So in dev eyes, buffing WW’s utility looks redundant where we need better utility, we need less overlap in mobility and get better mobility tools that dont overlap and arent worse knock off versions of what other specs have

A highly mobile spec, that cant cope with movement, downtime or being disrupted? Plexus Sentinel on mythic is a perfect example of this. Even when you get to sit on something you’re a shadow of what serenity was for us in DF.

You’re playing a spec that requires 110% effort for subpar results. Macros, tracking buffs, keeping bugged interactions in mind among other interactions that can get you killed NO OTHER CLASS HAS TO DO THIS.

Pulling threat was an issue but it made it at least fun to show people if played well, WW at least had THAT, burst, you noticed the monk in your group because of it. The same way Ench sham or Devoker still or used to rip threat.

This type of community perception is perhaps annoying for tanks, but positive for getting invited - if only we had tech to handle this, Tricks, Misdirection… AND IT WOULD BE ON PAR WITH MONKS THEME…

SEF does add useful utility being 2 charges but honestly give us 2 charges of serenity or something else - serenity with choice node for tiger eye brew if you need more dynamic burst windows. We’d keep our niche of being able to fit a dmg cooldown when other specs have to hold dmg without having to deal with SEF.

The pvp talent that sends out a SEF clone at a target is just as interesting as SEF and isn’t a major CD…

I’m seeing long time WW players drifting away from the spec at a high end… or just quitting the game.

Mag’har orcs racial is more noticeable than Xuen or any celestial pop’ing up from conduits hero tree…

Among so many other inconsistencies between Monks utility kit and other classes that offer the same thing, but better… better effects, lower investment either talent point or resource wise, shorter CDs etc Xuen is a joke in place of an actual dmg cooldown

Transcendence is a 45 sec cd, Lock port is 25. Tigers lust is 30sec cd, Pala freedom is 25 or less? and gives immunity to movement displacing effects and can give MS too… Some classes get resources for dispelling or interrupting but we don’t.

Soothe for druid is essentially free as it uses mana, a resource most druid specs don’t care about and hunter has another talent for Tranq that generates resource…

The list goes on…

Why are we paying a premium to be subpar???

Even if there’s a post made listing everything that could be done for WW going into Midnight. Would there actually be dev resources to do this? I don’t think Midnight is that far off - Alpha is soon? Beta soon to follow and release likely in mid Q2…

I can acknowledge that both hero specs did try to either surgically address A LOT of issues that WW has or I’m coping. Regardless if they were intentional or not they didn’t work.

They just made WWs inability to cope with movement, downtime or disruption even worse, which is what Fealine stop did… Much like fitting a 20 stack CJL channel inside shadow-pans 20% 5 second agility window…

All of this compounds on itself and was in alpha day 1 and never touched since despite feedback, I personally gave during testing.

Almost 2 years later and my assumptions were as I see correct. WW wouldn’t be able to handle movement or disruption at all.

WW is complex, doesn’t bring a must-have tool, and lacks a dev champion. That’s why it stays in this limbo where it’s good enough to function but not exciting or enough to be wanted or needed

Right now with boss fights that have adds spawn, WW will seem better but as every other guild catches up in mythic prog, gear etc this ‘performance’ WW has will be gone, your boss damage is awful compared to the previous tier.

Another thing is maybe stop trying to fix something that’s fundamentally broken. If you don’t have a dev that wants to take ownership of WW, and WWs design has been problematic for the health of the game and its gameplay, maybe redesign it. But again that requires someone to take ownership of it… Idk much about Aug evo but it seems we’re in the same spot.

I don’t see myself plaything this spec anymore if something significant doesn’t change in midnight. It simply isn’t good enough - offering a feature, a spec in this case, that’s been given bare minimum to qualify as an update each expansion isn’t something that would stand or living long in other software industries.

What I cant shake to this day is the SCK change, that broke SCK from beta till S3 of TWW. Was this reverted because of feedback or because devs didn’t know how to fix it? It was a wild and tone deaf change.

So much time was spent in alpha/beta fixing WWs new implementation of Chi burst only for it to not be used in live because WW is too busy of a spec to fit it in and justify despite it being a slight gain in AoE. How can this happen if it all has to be planned in advance? Unless it wasn’t…

I can keep writing but I’m pretty sure none of this will be taken on board anyway.

Maybe a GoFundMe for a billboard outside Blizzard HQ that says ‘Pls Address WW Feedback’ would be what we need.

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Sry for nit pic this out

WW mobility feels kind of so bad in PvP is not very useful

What WW is missing are spells you can press if you have no uptime

Expel harm that generate Chi

Something too not overcap resources if you like too min max

In midnight I am sure Tiger will be passive proc not an aktive and minor other changes too focus on images or idk

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This isn’t aimed at PvP at all - also no WW mobility in pvp is pretty good its not as big as it was when we had skyreach.

Brining up uptime in pvp is also kind of weird and redundant. A melee needs something to do when they’re being kited? No melee spec has anything like that that’s the point you’re melee.

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Yeah but actually no, you are not wright

Here some thought of an AI what and how good deal with being kitted or get in range
There NOT alle meeles

:crossed_swords: Final PvP Kite-Pressure Tier List (Best → Worst)

S Tier – barely punished by kiting

Retribution Paladin → mid-range kit, full rotation at 20-30y, ranged stun, heals, freedom, bubble.

Havoc Demon Hunter → Throw Glaive spam, purge, sigils, ranged CC, insane mobility.

Enhancement Shaman → Flame/Frost Shock, purge, slows, Hex, ranged poke.

Unholy DK → pet keeps pressure, Death Coil spam, Chains, grip.

A Tier – still threatening via dots or ranged poke

Frost DK → Chains, Death Coil, ranged slows/grip.

Assassination Rogue → poisons/bleeds tick, Shiv, Shuriken Toss for CP if needed.

Outlaw Rogue → Pistol Shot slows/dmg, ranged CC setups.

Survival Hunter → hybrid design, Serpent Sting, Kill Shot, traps.

Feral Druid → bleeds tick, Moonfire/Sunfire, Cyclone, roots.

Sub Rogue → basically only Shuriken Toss outside setups.

C Tier – heavily punished when peeled

Arms Warrior → Storm Bolt, Heroic Throw, shouts/slows.

Fury Warrior → Heroic Throw and a prayer.

Windwalker Monk → almost nothing at range besides Paralysis + mobility attempts. No bleeds. No Chi build possible

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Yes and ret has BoF which monk lacks, 30sec cd to remove a single snare

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Here some thought of an AI

No one cares stop spamming the post with AI gen slop - this post has nothing to do with pvp nor do I care to continue it

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You made being so wrong that it hurt reading your opinion

You hole post is an AI copy pasta

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You’re an idiot. Christ…

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Where is a forum admin banning this guy
That’s not how you talk in a friendly way

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What a coward - you insult me in broken english, paste AI generated crap you yourself said was AI generated - edit your post removing the insult and now want CS to ban me XDDDD what a sad man-child you must be irl.

Im not wasting more of my time on these forums - devs dont read feedback anyway and the ones that do will figure it out themselves.

What a lowlife.

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That’s a rude insult and racism

Everyone in the forum is quit well behaved and let people argue on different points of view, you instant getting violent cursing and treating me should give you something too think of

I hope you enjoy your time off wow, that what you have done will end in a ban, just a matter of time until a admin sees this

Report is out good luck have fun, and try too work on anger management

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Its so wack to point out if someone uses broken english. Not everyone learns things equally and not everyone is born in an english speaking/teaching country. Be a bit more respectful in that regard.

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Bro gtfo if thats the only thing you’re picking up to from this - guy is a troll or an idiot - hijacked the thread. The lot of you must share the same braincell - jesus chirst…

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You are full of hate and disrespectful, nobady will take you serious

Learn too behave first

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You are the entire reason for his frustration, maybe take an ounce of responsibility rather than piling it on.

It doesn’t happen often that a well-intended feedback post is entirely hijacked and ruined by one person, and this time, you were that person.

And yes, grim could've handled it more graciously, but he's had enough pushback already.
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So pushback is the new excuse for having anger issues on a public forums nowadays? Interesting to say the least. I think it is just a lack of manners and general disinterest from their parents to educate their child of common sense and how to behave without crashing out at the smallest inconvenience.

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No, that was the reason I didn’t feel like calling out Grimcookie on his unnecessary aggression, he already got called out quite enough. It also doesn’t take away that his frustration was largely understandable.

You are reading way too much into it if you think you can draw conclusions about the way he was raised, my dude.

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Maybe I am, maybe I am not. Still, reacting that way whatever the cause may be, is basically unacceptable in this environment no matter the history and shows to me that there is a deeper issue than pushback in a forum.

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Calling people out for trolling/hijacking the thread and turning it into this without moderation being involved is what’s unacceptable to me - considering the original post which is identical to the one I reposted was deleted and I was banned for it, only to repost the feedback again without the same action.

The CS person that did it was in the wrong and the ticket history I have between them shows me how much of a power hungry idiot they are.

There is a mage post that talks about fire mages talent tree having cancers.

That wasn’t moderated?? I’m not trying to get that person in trouble, I know them but such discrepancies in moderation is what I take issue with given what THIS specific CS person said to me, their arguments simply don’t hold up.

Seri is right, I could have handled it better for sure.

I’m not going to take it easy on someone who doesn’t have two braincells to rub together when they insult me, edit their posts to remove it, gaslight and report me as if its some 3d chess move. Only for another useful idiot to chip in when the post is about getting some actual healthy changes to the spec. Which none of you contributed to.

I’m not going to be expending more energy to handle situations like this because its simply not worth my time.

Its easy to make inflammatory comments while being taxing to debunk them - you need to have deep knowledge of the topic, ability to articulate it and time. Imagine defending a response they literally said is AI generated, it can not get more low effort and investment then that AND they then try to rope me deeper into this after.

If you don’t get it because of a limitation you have that is on you.

Someone that wants to have a conversation and wants to understand WILL, regardless how capable they are. That kind of person has all the time from me they need.

You on the other hand with the garbage you throw at me is a mirror of what I’m not going to put up with - why didn’t you do a better job?

Maybe I am, maybe I am not. Still, reacting that way whatever the cause may be, is basically unacceptable in this environment no matter the history and shows to me that there is a deeper issue than pushback in a forum.

Imagine having such shot reasoning skills while thinking you can weigh in on someone elses… Thats wild to me…

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I dont really give a damn about what others have done or are doing right now, thats whataboutism. The topic was this thread and your actions nothing else BUT you are right if that was the case, that is not okay either. Shot reasoning skills? I am not so sure about that, with the “Maybe I am, maybe I am not” I only really wanted to say I probably did take it a bit too far but that is my bad, I should have said that clearer and not in this vague roundabout way.

What do you hope to gain from being aggressive and insulting after getting banned once for it? It would do more good to be civil and keep things like that in the minds of people instead of keeping that same attitude up that got you into trouble once before, that doesnt make sense in the slightest.