WW needs some love

Windwalker needs some buffs for PvE, single target dps is so awful, I was testing the new tier set on PTR and it still is very bad, not to mention the huge spinning crane kick nerf we get for AoE once we replace our tier set,
right now our AoE is just okay, it’s not great, there are lots of classes that do way better there, once the tier set is replaced and we lose the 30% on SCK, it’s going to be much worse,
I already have so much trouble trying to join a group for M+ as WW Monk, sometimes it takes me literally hours before I give up, because why would you take a WW over the better options?

First, please do something about our ST damage, it’s just sad, I cant imagine how bad WW will perform in the season 2 raid with so many ST fights,
and second, buff AoE damage, either a flat buff for SCK, or add the nova from 2p tier for SCK also, or anything!
WW is atm already not great, much better picks out there that bring way more, and better dps, and if it stays like this it’ll be worse in season 2.

3 Likes

Also Windwalker monks need some love with self healing and passive def

“Dematerialize” should be not PVP passive ability for all specs
and should trigger when → stun\ lost controll \ and damage taken more than 15% by one hit

“Vivify” should be more than 5% of HP with 10 sec CD
“Expel Harm” - should be 5 second CD for all specs not only Brewmaster
“Resonant fists” - it’s almost last ability in the tree so impact should be viable → “empower our strikes by resonant power and bypass 50% of target armor”

  • 2 points = bypass 100% of target armor

It can make monk a little better because many classes has almost the same mobility
with much better def and selfhealing

Just examples →
Paladin has 6 second CD for heal with plate armor with range attacks
DeathKnight - “Deathstrike” with plate armor and range attacks
Warrior fury with selfhealing and plate armor

Unless you apply to keys like 22-23+, there is literally no problem joining 20s with your io score as WW. It’s not the spec but the fact you got only 8 timed. If you try at 2700 with 50-60+ 20s timed it doesnt take you more than 5mins to get into a key (any dungeon you might want) at 20-21.

(if you did your 8 timed 20s a week for vault, like in SBG or COS for couple months you would have had your timed number inflated and you would have zero issue join a key)

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Yeah maybe that’s it, I didnt do a lot of 20 runs yet, I only came back about 2 weeks ago after 2 or 3 month break, I wouldve been able to do more ofc if I could get into a key in like 10 min, and not hours if at all, but atm it is still very difficult to join for a 20 key, even 18 and 19’s take a while, but not hours ofc, like 20’s, 21 and up I dont even have to try and apply for hehe, I tried a few 21’s, but pretty much instant decline.
And even tho it might be partly not having done a lot of 20’s yet, I am pretty sure it wouldve gone a lot better if I played one of the much better classes/specs.

Oh and, I have done most keys with a friend, he is a prot pala, around 2800 rio, way more timed then me ofc, and still it took forever to get into groups, he sat there queuing for 30 min on average because we couldnt join one, when he is alone, he says it’s almost instant invite usually,
I really think that WW Monk needs a little bit of love, we are mediocre to just plain bad in all content/aspects, and as we have only one dps spec, we should at least shine in something.

So far my personal experience (premades) is that our damage can spike up high due to our burst, but in order to really excel we need a few increased damage spinning crane kick procs to get ahead of the others.

I tend to not be too far behind other DPS on the meters, atleast not on AoE. Single target is right now boosted massively by the Annulet, so I am concerned how our damage pattens will look like once we lose our current set and the Annulet (which I am sure Blizzard will jackhammer into the ground).

Concerning your comment about your paladin friend: what you two are doing is basically what people consider carrying a friend, as you use his high itemlevel/score character to get you into keys. I tried doing the same with a few guildies back a few months ago when I was around 2200 score.

My healer signed our group into 18 shadowmoon keys (as they are stupid easy) and we ended up not doing a single key. That was likely down to our group comp (brewmaster/mistweaver/fury) and the fact our score wasn’t way over the preceived max. I was also behind the curve on itemlevel (last to gear in raids, so I was around 8-10 overall behind other raiders).

Mind you this is only really a big issue in pugs, as a lot of people go over their head with what they can handle. In guild and organised groups people are way more lenient, which is why a lot recommend one to try and find a guild or community.

Just quit monk not enough people play it for the devs to notice we are literally a dumpster fire in raids and now in s2 we have been kneecapped in our only good spot m+ like i tested and wow i wont be playing monk at all its just crap so crap. We have literally gone from a not bad class to take to m+ because our burst dmg etc to one of the worst classes to take now the only reason we are sloghtly viable in s2 is our aoe stun good for new affix and are para good for new affix and our dispell good for new affix.

We have become the class you take to deal with affixs and i wont be playing that style of monk its crap painful and slow and yea you contribute to getting the key done but i would rather gouge my eyes out that play monk in s2 like i mean i can just go warr or dk or dh and have fun XD

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As a WW doing 95% of my keys solo pug i had seriously issue at start with people not inviting me to 20s (but i would join any CoS and SBG 19s to reroll my 19 key from a failed 20 run till i get one of these two in order to upgrade it and get a new 20).

I just had to farm many CoS 20 (which was easy as i could trade whetstone and people would invite me) to pump my timed in order to look appealing. Eventually since end of Jan had no issue as WW getting invited, but i think thats the general problem with solo pug dps not farming A LOT of keys at start. If you wanna pug you need to be better than rest people that queue same keys.

Score is only one aspect, i didnt push my WW above 21s because i made a shadowpriest alt (which is better at higher keys not gonna lie lol!!), but i still got almost 100x timed 20s+ at 2770 (not even 2800)

what ww monk needs.

1: antorus tier set in place of hardened soles and increased proc chance on the blackout kick proc
2: serenity talents should be a bit stronger, right now they heavily favor storm earth and fire
3: strike of the windlord, guarantees a blackout kick proc.

These changes would also improve ww monk below average st damage.

And there you have it, ww monk is now extremely fun.

2 Likes

You do know, DKs being estimated to be B / C tier for m+ in season 2 by most predictions based on PTR?.

And DH is getting knee capped in S2.

U may aswell cut thst down to just warrior as monks predicted to be stronger then the other 2. :rofl:

Raid wise, ye low ST is gonna be terrible :/, DH and Monk are looking bottom of the barrel in that

Stronger? XD you played ptr at all? Monks is f tier bottom of barrel dead, most of raid is ST monks is the worst not by a small bit by a country mile. Dks being b tier oh no my god guess i wont play that then and stick to my f tier monk? Like what eveything is better than monk next patch everything theyve kneecapped us with are only aoe dmg getting a mega nerf. We are getting the most useless, horrible, crap, uninspired tier set ever and still no changes 2 weeks out from patch. So yea ill go play a b tier dk or something i dont need you to tell me there not fotm xD

Be pointless to try and play PTR with monk, im not experienced enough with monk to make that deciding factor… im just saying Content creators are putting Monk above DKs in M+ Tier lists.

im just saying if ur looking for a imporvement warriors the best of those 3 choices. given arms is getting a AMAZING tier set for M+ Espically. While DKs is Questionable AF. anbd yeah, Monks in raids bad. but ur post sounded M+ Focused So i replied according to that :stuck_out_tongue:

but yes :stuck_out_tongue: in Raids. Monks and DHs are gonna be absolute bottom barrel, Monks Slightly worse off then DH. but i thought u were a M+ Player given ur initatial conversation stated in regards to M+.

Im talking raid and m+ its known that ww ST is dire and right now there great in m+ probably the reason most ww play it. because they have good burst good ish aoe and at times the stars can allign and boom your a god, but come 10.1 we still are dire in ST dead pan last but aswell we took literal shotgun to the leg making us a wet noodle in m+ now too. Anything is better ANYTHING. Monks dead sadly and honestly you say dh is in the same boat as us not even close there sinking right now but monk has been laying on the ocean floor for a few years now.

2 Likes

In raid testing monk is the only class below DH? Their ST is litterally non existent :rofl::rofl: their tier sets worse then monks

I aint gonna say monks fine for raids, it rly isnt monks ST is terrible snd raid wise the class has some of the worst scaling avaliable however and well yeah monks problems been ongoing since its introduction. Blizzards never shown monk alot of love.

Neither class is gonna get thrown invites however which is what i was saying :stuck_out_tongue:

Even worse is, I see so many changes, buffs and nerfs, all the time, but never anything for WW, it’s like they just completely ignore us, forgot us, or worse, think we are fine,
most specs seem to get some decent buffs, which in turn, makes WW even worse.

Hello Blizzard?! ‘‘knock knock’’

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Well, I had the same experience than you in m+ being a monk.
I stopped m+ for about more than a month now and reached 3100 io. Timed all +23 and some +24 but in more than 500 applies to +24, I never been invited. When it is pug life, I do think that me being a monk is about 50% of them refusing me

That being said, yeah, 2 weeks before 10.1 we look really really bad.
When you know the new Raid is mainly oriented ST and look at the sims, it’s a pure nightmare.
We are simming 116k in ST while all the others specs sims known are hitting a range between 135k - 170k.
We’re litterally bottom of the bottom in ST.
Talking about our AOE power now.
In 10.0 we we’re a bit above average because SCK and FoF being powerful capacities and were buffed by our tier set (well it also relied on some docj proc and Touch of Death for huge damages).
Now in 10.1 we’ll lose all those buffs and just get a nova in exchange. FoF is only boosted on the main target, which make 10.1 FoF better if there is 1 or 2 targets but weaker if there is more than 10.0 FoF. Which sounds awful for AoE.

For now, if nothing is done, we’re dead last in ST and meh AoE in 10.1.
Honestly we need a lot of changes to keep up with others specs, but with the new season arriving, I can only see an aura buff at this point, 20 or 25%. If it’s less, well, good luck monks

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They should revert the change

Fists of Fury deals 25% increased damage to the primary target and increases Shadow and Fire “Shadowflame Nova” damage you deal to all targets hit by 40% for 15 sec.

If they did we could utilize brew aswell as new enchants etc to get an edge… still behind but would be a bandaid

DH will, because Vengeance isn’t the best of tanks around, and Havoc brings a buff that boosts the damage of most ranged specs by 5%

In comparison to that the ones who benefit the most from Monk’s Mystic Touch are warriors and hunters (I am not a 100% sure on rogues). Hybrids get a bit of boost out of it on their abilities that deal physical damage, but the value is lower than the one you gain from Brand.

A monk you can always skip on, but you need atleast one DH for a raid group because they boost the damage of your ranged (warlock, mage, evoker, balance).

We need more than some love, we need a whole lot of it.

Get rid of FLS, rework ToD, address the scaling issues, buff for ST damage.

How that would work? I have no idea.

Obviously you can put Monk above DK because we have a dispel for the new affix, wow. WW damage is still bad.

From testing the tier set a bit more on PTR, only wearing s2 tier, it’s not even worth it to wear 2p for AoE, AoE Nova from RSK, together with RSK does less damage then a normal spinning crane kick on 5 targets, with 4p it does a bit more but it feels very underwhelming tbh,
makes me wonder how much higher ilvl the s2 tier set has to be before it gets better then tier 1, if at all.