Dinged another 60 alt.
Holy crap that shopping list
And if I wanna PvP, I then also have to farm honour upgrades.
Can you please, Blizzard, make it simple. In wrath all I had to do is farm badges / farm BGs.
God dammit, how depressing.
I don’t really play alts, but I know this item exists that helps out with the Renown part:
Broker Mark of Distinction - Item - World of Warcraft (wowhead.com)
i loved the badge system…
why ‘fix’ whats not broken…
ff14 has been using the badge system since it launched and it is very successful.
At this point the one needs to be rocket scientist to understand what is going on in SL when it comes to “features”.
Technically, then Shadowlands already has that in the form of Valor and Conquest and Honor.
Shadowlands just has a lot more progression and gameplay aspects on top of that, compared to WotLK which is a very basic game by today’s standards.
too much if you ask me personally…
badges is ALL you need. then focus on content.
EDIT: i mean content as in zones, dungeons raids…
not systems… and borrowed power… less of that the better.
I don’t know. I gave WoW Classic a shot and found it to be too plain and boring. You’re just grinding gear. There’s no gameplay incentive to do anything beyond getting gear. And once you have it, then you’re just standing around doing nothing.
Awesome back then, but time’s changed and I personally want my game experience to be more engaging and involving today. WoW has to present itself as more than a gear grind to keep my interest. And all these pesky modern systems and features help with that.
Badges don’t really matter much one way or the other in that regard. It’s just gear in an alternative and sometimes more convenient form.
oh i agree wow vanilla was a product of its time…
but Wotlk is akin to FF14 in it’s prime…
classic wotlk will hopefully help blizzard notice where they been going so very wrong these past years.
(if its popular)
I don’t know if the comparison makes too much sense to WoW.
Forgive me I don’t really play FFXIV, but to my understanding, then players really just play one character in FFXIV. Since you can be all classes/jobs, then you don’t really need to have alts.
WoW is designed so that each character is assigned a class, because WoW kind of wants players to make that gameplay choice that distinguishes them from some of all the other players in the game.
That’s probably the biggest and most impactful difference as far as class design is concerned.
yea you can just switch jobs in ff14… but the system to get gear in ff14 is basically
WOTLK badge system and it always has been right from day one.
no systems or borrow power… just badges…
and it works beautifully.
Sure, but there’s no burden to gearing up in WoW if you just have to do it on one character. It doesn’t really matter whether it’s through items or badges.
And that’s why it’s also painless in FFXIV, because you’re just gearing that one character up. It’s not because of the badges – it’s because it’s one character only.
WoW’s burden comes from the fact that every time you want to play another class, then you have to make a whole new character and basically replay the game from scratch. Badges are a drop of water in the ocean as far as help in that regard.
oh no you still have to gear up each class in ff14 seperately despite the fact u can just switch roles… each class still has its own gear sets and items and specs etc.
only difference is you do it from 1 char rather than alts.
its jsut as much effort to gear all classes as it is in wow at the end of the day … but easier ofc because its jsut the badges u are farming not countless systems ontop of that.
Incentive. Right.
So. New player A.
A finally hits 60 on his class of choice. Will choose covenant of their liking.
(A) then has to start grinding renown which isn’t always a guaranteed 3.
Farm Torghast for his Lego. A 262 if he wants to do any meaningful content. Player A must either then farm for the gold (some of which are over 100k still - definitely not easy for a new player) or buy tokens.
Does player A know you can spam Torghast? Unlikely as it’s not described anywhere in game. Rather you have to find this information out yourself by either being told or reading.
Though will most likely find out painfully.
Even once player A has 80 renown and a 262 legendary, player A must then start grinding korthia to get conduits.
Except Player A is never told in game that Korthia is probably his best option. Rather the game directs you into relics and a new quest line in Korthia.
Player A is unaware of sockets or x upgrade because the game again….Does a very poor job of telling him.
My point? If you’re looking to get into WoW. Shadowlands is probably the worst expansion, because what you call incentives are really grinds with no direction or flow because you’re never rewarded something visible apart from the Lego which everyone mogs.
We’re no longer rewarded for effort. Rather it is required if you’re doing any meaningful content. That effort is in the shape of grinds, on top of grinds which do not reward the player - they just apply to a borrowed power system.
Whilst I very much agree with your vanilla statement, let’s not disregard anything WoTLK - Legion where players were actually rewarded with their time investment with a visible upgrade. Something that you could look at and say ‘woah!’
You had a goal. ‘I need x’ you either farmed the currency for it or you know done actual ‘content’. Not multiple currencies to then be forced into yet another time sink.
Tell me, if this game has any hope of surviving, shouldn’t fresh new players be the ones Blizzard are targeting?
also when you switch jobs you start from level 1… as well so u also start from scratch just like in wow making a new alt.
Yeah sure, but you’re not starting from scratch like in WoW where you go all the way back to the character screen and find yourself at level 1 in Elwynn Forest.
I mean, within WoW I can also gear up relatively painless going from dps to tanking for example. That’s not too big a hazzle. Likewise in FFIXV.
It’s having to make a new character in the first place that adds an enormous burden to the experience in WoW, if you want to play another class.
Really? I didn’t know that. I stand corrected.
To be fair, this is something I completely ignored, and I got Keystone Master. The only piece of gear with domination shards I have is the gloves you get for the reputation.
yeah it works exactly the same pretty much … only thing is your char is your main … you do not need alts… you still have to level every class 1 - max level
you CAN make alts in ff14 if you really want to but they do not offer much reason to unless you want the storage space or u want to try boost yourself in the crafting all items achievement.
I see.
It’ll be interesting to see if Blizzard will change their design approach on the matter. Even with patch 9.2 making WoW yet more alt-friendly, then it still feels as if catch-up mechanics can never help enough. The burden of having to replay the game – which is a sizable time commitment – is hard to get around. And even more so when players seem to desire to play increasingly more classes on the regular.
There are design alternatives, but they’re major departures from WoW’s established design.
i honestly just feel like ION over complicates things needlessly simple works good and often works better… and it opens up so much freedom to focus on whats important…
gameplay and mechanics.
obviously i say ION … because hes the systems guy as far as i know … but its the team in general tbh.
Sure.
Maybe.
Depends on the player, I guess.
I mean, if you’re someone who just wants to focus on one thing, like Arena or Mythic+, then everything around you being simple and easy to get through is good. That allows you to focus more on the one thing you enjoy.
But if you’re someone who enjoys the all-round experience where you do a little bit of everything without doing anything too much, then the game gets really shallow if it just presents itself as raids, dungeons, bgs, arenas, and quests that you’re meant to repeat over and over for the heck of it.
That’s like Classic WoW when players have cleared the latest raid tier. It’s super boring unless you’re someone who just loves to farm.
It’s hard to have a design that works for everyone.