But at that point you’d just… have the old talent trees, no xD?
Or they could remove the “PvP” from “PvP Talents” and just let us use them everywhere :> That could maybe work alongside the old talent system, yeah.
We dont need a Level Squish.
You can Simply fix this with the Next Expansion.
Everyone ALL CHARS: Start at Lvl 100 Right in the middle of the Legion Invasion
Your short story is a gigantic questline on how the Leigon invasion was stopped,
100-110
Next the Aftermath, The legion has done alot of damage and Sylvanas has become even more Wacky then before The Faction War starts, Your Fresh 110 Char starts a massive new adventure trough Kul Tiras or Zandalar
The allied races are unlocked( allied races start at 120 with Full rep to their respected faction because… Blizzard storry)
120-140, Time is messed up like crazy. Some Evil Dragons are trying to disrupt history stop them in A Classic zones, Re-visit the classic zones with a facinating questline taking you trough Azeroth, Old dungeons are completely revamped to not suck as much( 1-60 sucks balls and not in a good way)
Outland: Many years ago Illidan became a butthole, Go to outland and stop him
Northrend: Many years ago we had a massive fight against the undead, Find out What happend
Pandaria: Many years ago This Garrosh dude went angry and caused a massive civil war in the Pandalands
Cataclysm: A Big evil dragon wanted to destroy the world see what happens next
WoD: A Paralel Universe of DRaenor has opend up to us because of some pissed off orc that doesnt know how to handle defeat, find out what happend.
In between you get a mandatory questline that explains your class and you have to discover something new( Heritage armor, a Mount etc)
110-140 is a leveling adventure trough one of the old zones with a specific questline complete with Dungeons and some kind of LFR Experience.
140-160p: The world is a excrementhole new expansion content not 10- but 20 levels worth of content that is actually fun with the first raid starting at lvl 150, this raid is trivial( No mythic mode, rade is small like 5 boss or smth). Then as you explore the world of warcraft for whatever the expansion made for you you hit 160, where endgame content begins.
Now starting at lvl 100 is a fine idea, however starting at lvl 100 is silly so we change the displeay of 100 to the number 1-10, we change 110-120 to 10-20 and so forth. The level ingame wouls still be 110 BUT it would LOOK like 1-10-20-30 etc.
That way an actual levelsquish isnt needed you just dont display the first 100 levels anymore. it would not break the game.
Leveling would gain a nice and awsome story line to the old zones( create a questzone that allows you to travel across pandaria, skip some more ‘’ trivial’’ quests, untill you finish the entire story)
You can choose to ignore the story and just spam dungeons.
Right now it takes about 2-3 days in played time tolevel, you dont really need to change that
I’m not sure if you’re trolling or totally serious.
All seems like minor changes, and not that significant. Stat squish was a bigger change if you ask.
The game needs level squish.
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RPG GAMES NEEDS SENSE OF PROGRESS WHICH THE OLD TALEN TREE GAVE.
There, simple and to the point.
The new talent tree came to remove the ‘illusion of choice’. It did not deliver. Instead it removed the sense of progress.
We’ve been through that, read the other posts :>
Squish won’t do anything.
Well, not really, I mean, nowadays talents are more flexible because you can choose any talent in a row independently from the next row whereas in the old talents system you had to spend points in whatever talent before you picked the next one so I’m not saying bring back talent trees, I’m saying bring back the ability to spend points in talents to increase their power.
Or they could remove the “PvP” from “PvP Talents” and just let us use them everywhere :> That could maybe work alongside the old talent system, yeah.
They can but I don’t know whether this is a good idea because many of them were designed specifically for PvP so they wouldn’t fit PvE environment but maybe they can add some of the talents that make sense as a baseline.
No, alot of ret ones were staple in PvE aswell. It’s like saying a fire mage never used frost bolt. It all had it uses in PvE, long arm arm the law was a very good pick for both PvE and PvP. It allowed a ret catch up with a fleeing mob or player. I combined this with glyph that gave me a speedboost when using judgement, thus whenever I judged you or the NPC would be slowed while I got a speedbuff, allowing me to chase you better or to kite. Give mages their spells, give fire Arcane Explosion, Frost Bolt and Blizzard back. It was part of our survival kit, slows with low damage but still usefull and a fast way to clear low health thrash. Optimal? No, handy? Yes.
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One could argue that the current one isn’t flexible at all.
As a warrior I barely change my talents.
A lot of them actually work pretty well in PvE.
The only two things the old talent system gave you over the current talent system is a way to spend points per level and the ability to spend points across multiple specs, it has nothing to do with progression because they can add these two features to the current talent system if they want as I pointed out in my previous posts.
The sense of progression back then came from the fact that everything was new, you had spell ranks, you had weapon skill, the maximum level was 60 and everything took ages, you had to go to the trainer to learn spells and whatnot so it has nothing to do with talent trees so stop screaming.
The new talent tree came to remove the ‘illusion of choice’. It did not deliver. Instead it removed the sense of progress.
The old talent system had its share of problems like scaling and balance and this is the reason they introduced a new system, not saying it’s perfect but in my opinion it’s better.
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How is working towards a skill not progression…? It’s the literal definition of it.
No it didn’t. People are playing private servers as we speak and still have that same feeling of progression even after 14 years.
Actually they did specifically stated that they replaced it because according to them it was “an illusion of choice”, Ironically though this system is a bigger illusion of choice evidenced by me not having to change any talents this entire expansion.
There was a lot of choice in the old talent system. I recon that the ‘illusion of choice’ comment came from a high-endgame player that is forced in to meta specs. By that logic, sure. There’s no choice, but that is always going to be the case with High-Endgame. There is always a “best” thing or “most efficient” thing to go with. You can’t stop that, by that logic every system you could possibly think of is an “illusion of choice”.
I’m not saying they can’t adjust them to work in PvE, I’m saying that many of them were designed to work in PvP and everything from CDs to damage can make existing spells overpowered.
One could argue that the current one isn’t flexible at all.
One could argue that the old talent system isn’t flexible because players just used the same builds as the guy standing next to them.
It has nothing to do with how much you change your talents but changing talents independently from another talent is where the flexibility lies.
That was their choice. Key word being choice. Just because they wanted the optimal spec most viable for raids because people asked for top DPS doesn’t mean that the system didn’t provide the opportunity for other specs to be made that weren’t as viable for reaching maximum performance but could still work really well especially on the PvP or leveling side of the game.
I recall that in Tbc there were multiple specs viable for PvP as a rogue. Combat/sub maces, Combat/sub swords. they worked slightly different if memory serves.
Edit: Ohh and Hemo claws. Fiveshot has some fun videos pvping with that.
Edit 2: I’m actually not sure what the precise specs were but the point is that we used a lot of unique specs back then. Warrior too had weapon specializations that slightly altered the way your spec played and that’s just changing ONE minor talent.
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Something needs to be done, most classes stop getting none talented skills at level 80.
That’s forty levels with maybe 2 skill from talents if your lucky, but if said skills are rubbish?
That’s forty levels with two passives.
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I didn’t say that working towards something or a skill isn’t progression I meant that the old talent system has nothing to do with progression and if you feel like they should introduce talent points to the game it can still be done with the current talent system, you don’t need the old talents to spend points.
No it didn’t. People are playing private servers as we speak and still have that same feeling of progression even after 14 years.
I didn’t say it’s the only thing that made progression, I mentioned few other things but for some people it was new and refreshing.
Actually they did specifically stated that they replaced it because according to them it was “an illusion of choice”, Ironically though this system is a bigger illusion of choice evidenced by me not having to change any talents this entire expansion.
They also stated that they replaced the old talent system because there were scaling and balance issues.
That was their choice . Key word being choice .
I get the point of mixing specs and I think that they can bring some of this flavor to the current talent system.
that goes both ways
I agree, something needs to be done I just don’t know whether “level squish” or “old talents” would change anything and I think that revamping the questing experience is a major undertaking but in my opinion this is where they should start.
“Revamping the questing experience” is what they did in Cata. It didn’t work out so well.
If all you want is to vary the activities for bored altoholics, they could simply add more activities for XP: bonus areas, solo challenge scenarios, 2- or 3-man scenarios re-using dungeons with instaqueues, grinding structures with increasing XP with increasing difficulty levels within them.
I think these kinds of options would be nice to have, but do not addres the core problem - which is of the devs’ own making - that most of levelling has been removed from levelling, leaving only dreary numbers ticking by on a dial.
They removed levelling from levelling to facilitate boosts. Go back to that root decision, and work forward again.
Not really, they revamped the zones and not the “questing experience” and saying that “it didn’t work out so well” well, this depends on whom you ask.
When I’m speaking about “questing experience” I refer to how the player interacts with NPCs, the kind of rewards the player gets and how quests affects the character, making quests more meaningful and encourage players to actually use things they get from quests can improve the experience as I mentioned in one of my posts.
They removed levelling from levelling to facilitate boosts. Go back to that root decision, and work forward again.
This is just yet another stupid assumption that you can’t prove but if you think like that there’s nothing really to discuss because they are all evil right? ![:upside_down_face:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/upside_down_face.png?v=6" ":upside_down_face:")
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