dude, it got reworked, every class was for the first weeks/months completely broken after a rework.
it got 1 week after the rework a nerf, and now its getting nerfed again, while holy got a huge buff.
Rsham has control and disc does not. So rsham feels fun for me, disc I find boring.
I dont think meta will change too much anyway. Those little nerfs disc got wont knock it out from the game. And good if they buff other healers too, its about time they do.
I think I see the problem, you reply me to complain of grounding/kick and how rsham can stop your clones. I read from the thread other guy complaining about rsham controlling him. So I reply to suggest give all healers same amount control to make healing feel more fun.
If you was speaking only about stopping cc or thought I was only speaking about stopping cc that was not it. I mean rsham in general has better toolkit to enable their dps to play than anything what disc can do.
Rsham feels fun cause you can chase ppl with your dps and enable them have uptime to the targets with your toolkit and the like. To just mention one benefit of it.
And yeah rsham has range kick on short cd, thats also fun to have. I can disrupt wizard lords, I can chase healer around pillar with my mate and stop them with root and kick their heal, you cant do even half of that as disc as its just spamming shield and doing 123 dmg and its only good when its overtuned cause smart ppl can easily counter that and then it also needs somebody who control the game like rogue or feral cause it self has zero control beside fear/mc.
i mean u can do whatever u want its good when u have fun!
but thats not my point, my point is, that the Rsham toolkit how it works currently is omega toxic for one side of players, while in a melee zugzug lobby it does close to nothing.
also rsham binds are overloaded, i cant think of a class what have more keybinds than this class because of so many micro management. what adds often nothing than annoying counterplay to it.
u dont play 3s really much so u cant understand my point when it comes to a only caster meta, what favors wheelchair meta specs like shadow/ warlocks.
it´s like acting âele with double knockback is good utility, and good for the gameâ which is not (and got removed)
or low cd on static totem in âdragonflightâ (got increased)
i dont see the reason why they gave him lasso in dragonflight, knockback, lower cd on grounding, static totem what u can also move lmao
i could have understand a wall while being Stuned and droping under 35% more than this.
its the same with, why did they gave mage blast nova, or 5x different talents what increases his movespeed xD
you dont understand my point, there is no world where it is good, when 1 player have fun but 5 not
same how feral is designed since Dragongflight with the (clone snowball effect)
rsham should have grounding/kick on low cd to defend himself. cuz he isnt really mobile
but there is no need for knock/lasso behind a pillar xD or static (moveable) normal static is fine
i was speaking about general toolkit what is toxic, and what is not
and there is nothing wrong about, to have healer what have a lower skill ceiling that others, dps classes have the same
only problem is that âdisc is after the rapture removal completely overtunedâ while other healers are really weak (rdrood for example)
i get what u saying (low effort playing disc getting more rewarded, than rdrood/rsham which are more difficult to play ) but this have nothing to do with the toolkit thing what i have said
its a âscaling/ overperforming problemâ its the same as the dh incident in dragonflight, now healers have the problem what dps classes had in df
Yeah thats why it feels fun, they should make more healers have toolkit that makes other side feel they are not allowed to play. That would make more ppl like healers. Try out rsham yourself in ss and see its quite fun if put all flaws of ss aside 
it would make more people to quit
it´s like saying, creating more buttons to use it situational would increase the participation
this thing is close to be the main reason why pvp died in the first place, and boomers prefer to watch wow classic instead of retail (cuz retail is in pve and pvp OVERLOADED xd)
thats what im trying to tell you the entire time, it sounds good for you on paper, but in practice it will make the game for close to everyone even worse
this means
(u create more situational micro cc/ annoying instant stuff what counters hardcast cc/spells)
(u create more button bloat)
(you increase the skillcap of healers and also the toxicity MEANS EVEN LESS PLAYERS WILL HEAL
because every dps will say âwhy you dont use this, why did you use this in the wrong timeâ
Bro people already struggle to use Voidshift, and u wanna increase the Skillcap even more, healer is already difficult and the hardest role in the game.
thats a simple no
the only part at this point where i agree with you is, that disc what is in shuffle easier to play shouldnt get rewarded by by so much, or atleast less than other healers what are more difficult to play.
dont have enough binds for it, and im playing feral, this should say enough
and i only like Rdruid when hot´s do actual healing, i was thinking about to level a disc to get a better understanding how to play with this class and it looks easy (maybe fun?)
like i said, i do understand your point that disc are getting rewarded by too much currently by just spaming 3 buttons (dh like) XD
but they nerfed disc again, and buffed other healers what is a good step in the right direction no?
but u also have to understand, that especially in rated 2v2/3v3 your change (or what u want would kill the game even more, by adding more micro cc/stops/ keybinds to this game) xd
In melee heavy lobby ppl cleave and you get more benefit from double earthen when they hug each other on mid or come cleave on each other top of you. And in caster heavy lobby you get to kick and ground everything and disrupt the wizard lords.
I agree, I could remove few buttons from it and just bake them to some other abilities and it would be fine.
Does anybody really? Game shifted to shuffles and other nonsense since dragonflight. I view the game in big picture however always when I think of something. Im not thinking only 3v3 Im thinking blitz, ss, 2v2, 3v3 all combined.
I guess same reason why they gave every dps access to 4-5 cc, in fact to a degree that they even had to go and nerf the overall durations of all cc because they just bloated the game with all this cc.
Yes, this is what is toxic. Having low skill ceiling disc with 3 buttons being god for half years while rsham and rdruid are trash. Still I find rsham more fun than disc, I find even holypriest more fun than disc cause I have more control as holy and more fun toolkit otherwise aswell than just spam shields.
I cant play without mmo mouse, I need the mouse and yeah I have alt, ctrl, shift modifiers on every 12 thumb so and I do cc with modifier + wheel to 123 target so that saves some binds. Also I make some help/harm macro with shift modifier to self but to use less binds on long run. But its a hassle to setup rsham I agree, I could design it to be more modern. Blizz mostly only creates new heros like evokers and dhs and forgets about the rest to their vanil designs pretty much, even when they do reworks they just swap some talent pathways but not change the core gameplay much.
Its the easiest healer, just press shield
I would dome early too and try use atleast one charge of ps early so you get it back later from spamming shields and the shield â ps cd cdr mechanic it has. Too many discs in shuffle sit on their dome and ps cd all game even when warlock is being trained to death by fury+dh/ww or something.
The whole idea of disc is prevent dmg before its done, instead of trying heal dmg that is already happent. Its design is to mitigate dmg before its made. Most disc rerollers dont understand that its not a healer per se, it mitigates dmg with cds and shields. Holy âhealsâ disc mititages dmg. So would like ppl start doing that earlier before Im taken to 40% hp by all the frontloaded dmg melee can send in this game in nanoseconds.
not when they move out of it, which most of the player does, or when it is 2 meele vs casters like mage. wl
hm, not even solo shuffle anymore, it feels as dead as 3s because every turtle timmy shifted to Bg blitz to get free rewards instead of learning the game and improve instead of catching like a Fomo player only free rewards
(most of the Pvpers since Shadowlands are Roblox gamer what only plays this mode for free rewards instead of fun)
yes xd thats why im against giving other healers the same utility, it would make everything more toxic xd
but the only problem is because of being overtuned, just take my dh example, in my opinion this class should be still good/okay but not overtuned
because its good for newer players, bad players, to have a healer class to learn the basics/ the game (because this game needs nothing than micro cc prune and more healer players)
yeah i had to buy a new mouse since Dragonflight otherwise i would have missed 2 important spells
That is why I said âin a melee heavy lobbyâ meaning there is 4 melee and they will hug each other on mid or come cleave to each other on top of you. And you said that earthen wall does nothing which is not true in these situations when you stack it under yourself or the melees hugging each other on mid. I added that in a caster heavy lobby you utilize your other toolkit to stop casters and it compensates little for getting less value from earth.
My mouse wheels keep dying, Im on 4th mouse now in few years, these mmo mouses are Imo needed but their build is also bad. The wheels keep dying in half year if you use it actively for something like 123 fear/poly/clone etc.
hm at higher mmr, some melees are moving out of it (enemy) to hope that the melees with an Rsham in team follow them, ret, rogues/ferals most likely doing it
its most likely meant if you use it for others, same for dh darkness cuz they just ignore it, unless u play with an wheelchair class like shadow priest
Yes, I know, I think they did it on purpose to make a ton of money. Once you get used to an MMO mouse, you canât play without one anymore
Well, the totem like design where you need ppl to stay somewhere is one of its weaknesses but I would not say earthen useless as it gives alot mitigation when stacked under cleaving boys that come cleave on each other top of the rsham example. I actually love when they all come play top of me, then they all are at one predictable place atleast. They also hurt themselves when our team is also cleaving on them, we are all just top of each other on very predictable position cleaving each other and its soooo engaging gameplay but atleast I know they stay in earthen.
I donât mean to disturb the discussion you two are having, but I have to comment on this take. The game needs less micro cc, not more. And thatâs just the common consensus.
I get your point, you want to feel like you contribute to kills as a healer. Thatâs fine and understandable, but then they should just give healers more damage or something. In no world is the solution to give other healers the same type of toxic toolkit as rshams have. Hpala was also nerfed recently for a similar reason, that double bop+freedom was too toxic against melee.
3s since the cc nerf back in DF is already filled with nothing but comps that focus on stopping the other side from playing, while bringing the highest m+ damage classes. Almost no comp does setups, everything is just thrown to disrupt the other side from doing damage. I know you donât play 3s so you donât relate to what faveyo is explaining. But imagine what itâs like, and then add a rsham on top of that.
Now I donât do much shuffles myself, but Iâm sure the problem isnât as prevalent there due to the comps being random and how unorganized everything is there.
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Thats true
I agree, give all heals control like rsham and more dmg like disc. Make healing fun. (fun is objectional and personal preference, for me control and doing dmg as healer is fun)
Oh I would, and I did before dragonflight, I played rsham comps in 3v3. But does majority play 3v3 still really? I guess some do, my gameplay has shifted mostly to shuffle and now shuffle/blitz. I dont like to sweat too much on some rating in arena when most of that rating ranges players have shifted to soloqs since dragonflight. That is blizzards fault really.
Yea I remember you used to play 3s. I agree 100%, itâs all Blizzards fault. I wouldnât play it either if it wasnât for me having a group of rl friends to play with. And yea itâs giga sweaty and kinda horrible most of the time, but itâs still a type of experience that no other game (to my knowledge) provides. People follow the path of least resistance, which is why they all flocked first to shuffle, and now to the âratedâ bgs.
So yes I get why people donât play 3s anymore, but itâs very unfortunate and that makes me despise both shuffle and rated bgs.
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I also dont enjoy 2v2 anymore at all cause I dont enjoy facing only same meta comps in eu over and over some two buddies playing disc+ww or disc+bm or something and Im to play rsham+arms with a friend for example and then we have to face only these over and over. So both 2s and 3s arena are pretty much dead, it is what it is, can send suggestion to blizzard on the suggestion section from the game. Thats all I can do about this.
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Yep 2s are even more dead than 3s, itâs such a disgrace. Facing the same 4 teams at 2k mmr, only playing against disc and the most broken 2s dps specsâŚ
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for yourself it isnt useless, but it does not change the fact that its a poorly designed spell, but since the game is a pve game, and in pve u move most likely 1x time per 1 minute, i can guess why this designe exist in the game with no thoughts about Pvp
the thing why i said useless its either a godlike spell, or a complete useless spell
earthen wall makes a shadow priest for example Unkillable.
while for an feral/rogue etc it adds nothing, feral get´s zero value of it, with the exception in some niche situations like pre earthen wall when feral gets stunned, and you poly/cc
while caster classes getting the most juicy out of it by just staying like an afk bot
atleast they buffed rsham ns/riptide so his heal isnt 90% earthen wall anymore
It comes up yearly someone suggesting that it should follow the player as some buff and I agree, but on other hand we also have things like darkness and dome. It would also remove part of the some skill that is left how ppl can affect something by themselves, but yeah. With timing and relocating them often earthen is still not useless at all imo, I like it. Rshams complain of dps not being in earthen a lot but Idk why they hardly ever relocate it what I see in shuffle, I just put relocate on mouse and press it on cd not only for cage but this earthen too or hide tide if in some rare moment somebody in shuffle actually kills a totem lol
Havenât had the pleasure to experience that yet, must be nice 
Yeah Shadow is pretty turret, like warlock. Good targets to stack double earthen under or dome or darkness early etc I try to ask these from ppl in shuffles but 80% time they never do.
Example I have weakaura to show intervene so I could know when to cast free and I ask both of the war in fury, arms, ww lobby to intervene early on me and the WA never lights up even once, so yeah. Ppl are just bad in general at doing anything they are suppose to 
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