You need to stop

You wont be playing at Gingi level not even your “”“mastered”“” class.
And rerolling usually is not just about extra % of damage.

Unless you totally change role + class, getting used to a new spec isnt overly complicated if you start playing it all time.

I disagree. Yes retribution went abit out of hand now, but other than that, did you see the comparisons? Tuning at the end of season was very close, and the gaps between the classes were very small. Thus

stands as firm as it can be. You can pick whatever you like and still perform good, Maybe not RWF / m+30 good, but you can without a doubt become cutting edge / KSH with every single class / specc combination there is, and noone will change my mind about this.

It actually is. I’d argue it happens way more often, than people changing class / role for the sake of changing class / role. Just see how many people changed to retri paladin after 10.0.7. Why isn’t there a flood of discipline priests in that case?

Again not true. For the average plays sure, but certain classes have high ceilings, which require months of proper learning. Especially for the average players that reroll for the sake of a few %.

Raid might be few %, mythic plus for sure isnt.

Survival and Destro lock SL s3/4 were few %?

And i had ton of people still push 20++ with those despite never playing them.

The disconnect here seems to begin with the assumption that I’m telling you how to think and feel. You don’t care about being part of the meta and you know what? I’m the same, so I can relate.

The fact of the matter is that I never meant to address you specifically, but rather the reason for why Blizzard does not ignore human nature in their game design - Hell I even added that I suspect they play into it on purpose.

This is what I’m talking about. You seem to be ignoring that aspect of development. We have meta slaves because that’s by design and this is what you cannot ignore when addressing the subject matter.

Even back in vanilla (not classic, although it’s even more so the case for classic) you had meta slaves.

At this point they either don’t care, or do it on purpose to “rotate” classes, so more folks end up buying boosts, latter being unfortunately the more likely because it makes no common sense to keep such huge gaps between classes in terms of balance.

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Destro / survival worked OP with 4/5 tier set, in higher keys / M+ enviroments, with large pulls (such as gambit for example), priest using PI and other important factors. You’re also forgetting the damage didn’t scale ok, meaning they were technically stronger due to an ‘anomaly’, and not just tuning. Same thing happened with fire mages in SL S1. Tuning is something that would be fixed by a 10 - 15 % buff / nerf, but destro and survival both needed overhaul with how tier set worked. You’re making it out as it was absolutely mandatory. I’ve seen so many keys (sub 10 level) with destros / survivals being outdpsed by something else, and this is why I’m writing this.

You pointed out yourself. 20++? Someone doing 20++ is an experienced player, that probably tried the classes before. The average or even subaverage player ain’t doing 20s, but 10s.

combination of the design + player’s nature, as you’ve said yourself.

No because those were friends of mine that never played lock or hunt before.

Tier set is part of tuning.
Did not need insane pull either nor PI to make them OP.

Those specs were literally clownproof provided you could press a button without getting bored.

Why are we talking about 10 keys. No one reroll meta to do 10s.

But they atleast know the logic of how the game works. I’ll repeat again - someone doing 20+ keys is an experience player, meaning their skill is already higher to begin with.

No it’s not. I’ll say again - both tier sets for destro / survival would have to get completly reworked to make them in line. Not just tuning.

Ofcourse they did. You clearly have no idea, and are selling me things that you have read somewhere. Destro / survival were strong because of rain of fire and the bomb spell not being capped, and the huge uptime of both spells. Both only performed exceptionally well in large pulls. Their ST on bosses and performance with small packs was pretty in-line with other classes.

You would be surprised how many. And if you would read the post, you would notice that we’re talking for anything up to KSH.

Skateboard couldn’t ever be meta because they aren’t legal to use on the road or cyclepaths where I live.

If I went on the road everyone would be absolutely hating on me and maybe even call the police. Which is what I imagine will happen if I try take my near C tier Guardian Druid into a key.

How do you know its overnerfed? Because someone put it on a list on the internet based on their feelings and no actual proof?

I’ve got some sand in the sahara to sell you if thats how you work. It’s a good deal - I promise - you saw it on the internet afterall.

No they didnt. I never mentioned ST, stop putting things i never said in my mouth.

I simply said that you didn’t need INSANE AOE scenarios to see those specs strenght.

Insane AoE would make their strenght show even more, but decent aoe pull which are pretty frequent in M+ were enough.

Saying this won’t make it true. Tier sets are part of the spec they are designed for, and you cannot avoid tuning the spec in regards of the power you give via tsets

A lot of people rerolling from a new class will obviously start from lower keys get confident with it, what a surprise.

Now, if you wanna sell me the idea that people reroll to push +10 keys ans sit there, thanks no, ain’t buying it.

You clearly don’t know alot of things, and you refuse to see the wider picture. I never put anything in your ‘mouth’, but I’m just telling you straight up facts, while you’re refusing to understand due to your narrowmindness.

You NEEDED INSANE AOE to see the specc’s strength. This is the point of it all. This is why destro and survival were in every meta build and in high keys. Up to KSM, you would rarely pull more than 6-7 mobs at once. And even if you did, destro / survival didn’t out dps other classes by atleast 100%, the same way they did in the scenarios I pointed out.

I went to your achievments - you don’t have the keystone hero for S3, meanwhile I do. Stop being smart for the sake of being smart and open your eyes, because you’re selling me nonsense.

I’ll say it again to pass through your thick skull. If it won’t go in, I’ll just wave white flag. Destro and survival needed OVERHAUL / REWORK, and no tuning! This is a heavier modification and something that requires alot more work, as opposed to TUNING. Destro / survival wouldn’t benefit from ‘nerf that by 20%’ because they would still outperform everything in the scenarios I mentioned, whether you like it or not.

Check here - Class Tuning Coming 29 June - Community / General Discussion - World of Warcraft Forums (blizzard.com) . They postoponed so called ‘tuning’ because it wasn’t a 'tuning 'anymore, but a overhaul.

Believe and buy what you think, I couldn’t care less if one stubborn human being is swimming against the current.

No it isn’t.
Because those classes were not trash, AT ALL, outside of said “insane” situation.
They were more in line sure, still on the high end of strong tho.

Plus if you play with apes in 15s that disregard your group strenght, the fault is not really on the rerollers being outdpsed.

The second a tank enabled you, you literally melted. And even if they didn’t you were more than decent especially survival.

Ye thanks for proving how clowny you are. Apparently you cant dislike a season otherwise you lose the right to talk, damn. Thankfully rio/logs ans twitch does not need ksh to be used.

So honestly, screw off.

I’m glad they nerfed. It’s the easiest spec in the game.

The worst things about these changes is their impact on the community perception on a given spec, and its impact on the players ability to find groups.

I mean, tuning happens and most specs will either over or under perform at some point, and that’s fine (I’m not specific about BM Hunter).

But whether the nerfs are justified or not, it put the players that play these specs into a weird position. Look at the first season of DF, some specs (let’s take MW or BrM as an example) were very undertuned. Then they progressively got better and were able to do most content. But as they didn’t went through a godlike phase, people were still crapping on the spec, deeming them “not suitable for content”, and it was kinda hard to find pugs as a monk, even though they were fine.

The tuning of classes is close this expansion, you will always have outliers, is a class incapable of getting KSM, CE, AOTC, or Gladiator, no every class can get that, also every can do +20 - +25 key levels. Is it easier with some other FOTM class maybe but thats who is playing the class tbh.

I’m going to continue nerfing whichever classes I want to. You can’t stop me, Mahgeta!

:open_mouth: sick man leggo

Gigachad gaming leggo

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