Your resource for weapons and Armor

Hi friends,

Hello Nerds! Weirdos and other niche subculture nicknames!

I am really careful about writing this out of fear that it may be perceived in the wrong way. The idea is not to tell you that YOUR RP IS BAD, or you are doing it wrong etc.

So the disclaimer aside I say hello! I am a fairly new WoW RP-er, and would like to contribute, or at least try to contribute to improving WoW RP, especially when it comes to mele combat.

I am writing this from the view point of a HEMA(Historic European Martial Arts) instructor and would like to share some knowledge about medieval weapons/armors in the hopes that it might help you.

I am here and happy to answer any questions! Intro aside, let’s being;

First we will deal with Weapons:

Swords:

Perhaps the most misrepresented weapon in pop culture and fiction, European swords varied heavily in style and application, but were for the most part, incredibly light, quick cutting weapons, favoring precise direct cuts. Swords, while often carried where hardly ever used as primary weapons, and were often a second or even third fall back weapon a knight or man at arms would use in combat. The styles varied from culture to culture, but for the most part they were direct, cutting and slashing weapons, dexterous and light, often wielded by incredibly trained and experienced individuals

1.Longsword(Hand and a Half Sword/Bastard Sword) - The archetypal “Knightly” sword, was an incredibly versatile and dexterous weapon. The swords were usually around 70cm in length(Blade) while the handle varied in length. Contrary to popular belief Longswords were the lightest of swords, with their main advantage being reach, speed and leverage.

  1. Arming Sword - A weapon typically carried by Men at Arms, mercenaries sells words etc. Usually about half the length of a longsword, these weapons were considerably heavier than the longsword. It was almost always paired with a shield(More on that during the armor section), where the short length of the blade allowed for easier maneuverability while fighting in formation, and behind the safety of a shield. The sword was usually kept behind the shield at all times as to not expose the wielder.

3.Rapier - Believe it or not one of the heaviest swords in use, contrary to it’s appearance. Rapiers were for the most part thrusting weapons, achieving the height of popularity in an age where armor has all but vanished from everyday use. Rapier fencing emphasized quick movement and explosive lunges to deliver quick but precise and deadly blows.

4.Smallsword- Or Court sword was a cutting/thrusting weapon popularized in the 17th century, and seen during the re emergence of melee combat especially among sailors and mariners. It was a relatively heavy weapon for it’s size. Practitioners trained in both cutting and thrusting maneuvers, with it’s real strength being the cutting power afforded to it by it’s weight. Especially in an era of unarmored combat.

5.Messer/Lang Messer/ Kriegsmesser - Were a uniquely German sword, used in various forms across European history. They were single edged, knife hilted swords, usually featuring a crossguard, these weapons saw heavy usage against unarmored foes.

There are many variations to these weapons and many regional variants but this should cover the basics, if people show interest I will gladly expand on weapon sections

PIKES

Spears, Pollaxes(Note that pollaxe is the proper term pole-axe is a modernization), Halberds


Spears - The oldest and perhaps the deadliest weapon in human history, the spear is as basic as it gets and as effective as you can imagine. It was used by humans from our earliest days. Spears were terrifyingly effective against Soldiers, Knight’s cavalry 
 With the only real disadvantage being that they were long and therefore difficult to maneuver in confined spaces, as well as easily disarmed or broken especially by armored combatants.

Pllaxes/Polearms/Halberds - Is a wide term for a bladed/mace head spear, usually carried by late medieval knights, incredibly effective bludgeoning tools against armored foes, deadly cleavers against unarmored ones, and long reaching, high leverage pikes and hammers for fighting at longer ranges. They were the pinnacle of late medieval weaponry, and a terrifying sight to behold for many a poor peasants forced into the frontlines.

MACES :

While there are many sub categories of maces, they for the most part remain similar in purpose and differ only really in aesthetic design. Their rise came during the late medieval period , where they were introduced as a reliable way to combat armored foes. By applying direct bludgeoning force at the end of what is essentially a stick, the weapon aimed to break bones, dent armor and cause debilitating internal injuries to the target.

Flails- There is only anecdotal evidence of flails, and no historic record, recovered weapons or treatises that depict their usage, flails are a fantasy construct.

Armor-
Here we arrive at what is probably the worst crime pop culture has committed towards European military history
 Armor.

Leather/Cured/Studded - This
 for all we can tell, never actually existed, leather clothing is a purely modern construct, it offers no protection against cutting piercing or bludgeoning weapons.

Gambeson - The unsung hero of the Middle ages , we arrive at the gambeson, was a padded CLOTH jacket usually stuffed, it was incredibly light, offered decent protection against slashing and piercing weapons, it was cheap to manufacture and maintain, and saw extensive use throughout European Military history.

Chainmail- We are now getting into the good stuff- Fantasy has severely understated just HOW Effective chainmail was, a warrior clad in chainmail armor was nigh indestructible to most contemporary weapons. Usually worn over a Gambeson the chainmail would be fastened and tightened by a belt, this light ring like shirt or tunic provided exceptional protection against swords/spears and axes, and was the most common armor used in the mid to late middle ages.

Plate - The true hero of the battlefield. Incredibly expensive, suits of plate armor were tailor made for their wielders, only afforded to knights and wealthy nobility, these LIGHT and sturdy pieces of equipment made the wearer virtually indestructible on the battlefield. The wearer would usually don a thin gambeson, a shirt of chainmail over it and only then strap the plates over it, often given the incorrect reputation of being heavy, plate armor suits were in fact very light and dexterous, as the knights who wore them were valuable and trained warriors, with a lifetime of martial training and discipline, the sight of a Knight clad in plate armor, usually meant it was game over for you. They armor was so effective that multiple treaties by renown sword masters advise AGAINST fighting someone in plate armor, and to instead swarm, tackle and strip the armor off of the wearer
 needless to say never alone.

Thanks for reading, these are just some quick notes about it, I understand it’s a fantasy game but I sort of wanted to create a resource where ppl can have a look! Let me know if you want more details about a certain thing, something you think is cool that I haven’t mentioned, something that needs explaining etc.

See you out in the world <3

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Leather’s only a ‘modern construct’ and offers no protection against cutting/piercing/blunt weapons, but Takeda Shingen, Uesugi Kenshin, and the Oda outfitted tens of thousands of Ashigaru with leather armour during the Sengoku period just to keep them warm, I guess?

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This all sounds very useful for a world without aliens, orcs, tauren, regenerating trolls, magic, lasers, superstrength, divine infusion, and enormously sized weapons and armor

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And answering from the perspective of a HEMA sportsman largely avoiding it whenever it comes to RP.

HEMA is a useful resource for low fantasy roleplay; but nigh useless when it comes to high fantasy. I’ll bring you two reasons for it. One I reckon you’ll /love/.

Enjoy the game

Seriously, I’m not here to describe dei Liberi’s technique’s and the Meyer rectangles to people unfamiliar with either. GOKU fights are enjoyable and entertaining; arguments about accuracy of emotes and going to ridiculous lengths to be historically accurate will only bring OOC arguments.

You should NEVER expect another roleplayer to be as knowledgeable in a topic as you are, and you should NEVER, EVER chastise them for it. We’re accountants, IT desk assistants, retail workers, etc. here to have some fun, not historical researchers (or at least, not most of us). If you bring HEMA to a swordfight in RP, I will nit pick every single reference you do to wines, nobility, warfare or science.

Second, there’ll be a NERD more familiar with history than you are

(Looks at mine) - Yeah, no. That’s competition feder, buddy - if you are taller than 6’ you want a longer blade.

Untrue for the periods they were used in. You detailed the lightest in point #3.

There is no historical consensus for the definition of an arming sword. You described a modern backsword or an early shortsword.

Sword and shield are ahistorical unless wielded as a side-arm. Shield and spear, now that’s gucci.

(Lifts one) Don’t think so, buddy.

They are called “slice and dicer” in the language from whence the word saber also comes from and were used for rapid cuts.

Maybe because they were used for civilian duelling/sports/defense.

Or distance and parrying for accurate slashes.

You are confusing cutlasses and epees. Sailors solely used cutting weapons because they literally used them to cut other things than humans and thrusting motion is inconvenient in tight space.

They were identical to Hungarian/Polish sabres of the era.

Man I wish more people used spears in RP. They are cool, even when you lay down the HEMA terms and hyper-duper-realism.

Don’t know about you dude but getting hit in a 1800N suit with a long metal stick doesn’t bother me much. Can’t imagine it bothered armoured foes either.

No.

No. You’re talking about armour that wasn’t dented by bullets (refer to the Graz armory’s collection of munitions armour).

There’s a reason you have armour plates in your 1800N suit; dispersing physical force across a larger surface reduces the chance of penetration and instead has the force dislocate/move you. Our masks are to protect us from broken blades, not from blunt trauma.

The “true” power against armoured foes is a spike in whatever form. A spear, a lance, a war-hammer with a spike. Concentrate as much force as you can to as tiny a point as possible to penetrate the armour. If you look at historical warhammers, you won’t find WoW’s ludicrous maces but mid-sized hammers with big nasty spikes on one end.

Arte De Athletica depicts flails and provides instructions for their use. You are referring to flails where the chain is longer than the handle.

It provides protection if lacquered, but you are right, it’s inferior.

Looks at fire mages-

I guess bows, crossbows, spears, javelins, daggers and lances weren’t contemporary weapons.

Only European chainmail was mainly ring-like and the occasional Japanese garment. The Chinese alternatives are truly fascinating.

I’d challenge you to stand in chainmail ahead of a charging spearman or an axe hit. You wouldn’t, we both know.

From the 16th century onwards. The technology to create plate armour as we know it was developed in 15th century Italy.

I don’t know where you take that from. I believe most treatises advice a tackle and a dagger thrust. See my previous note on BIG SPIKES and armour. Very easy.

Also:

Proceeds to mind control you

Yeah. That knowledge is pretty useless if you refuse to factor in WoW materials, magic and races.

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Honestly as far as WoW RP and weapons go, I subscribe to the the rule of cool. We’re talking about a world with spaceships, planes, WMDs, tanks, mechs, and people who can conjure fire out of nothing. Best not to think too much about why we still run at each other with sharp pieces of metal.

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Everyone throwing hate at you but I think this is a very nice and cool resource. Thank you.

Yes, very nice and cool, but there’s no hate whatsoever here.

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‘Hate’ lol

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I tried using a spear recently.

A phoenix ate it.

On topic though, this is a really short and often a bit inaccurate guide in several places, such as Leather armour
 which was a thing. And yet the Gamebson, a moderately thick cloth garment was more effective? I imagine the leather armour you’re thinking of is the heavily studded kind, which is fictional. The HEMA instructor flex is a bit weird though, since I’m not sure what bearing that has on roleplaying with sharp pointy things.

still, you get points for effort. Put more research in, make a more extensive guide on how to use these in Roleplaying maybe. Take a look at the metals guide thread that floats around our realm forum.

Criticism isn’t hate. And never will be.

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As much as this is a nice resource, I think a lot of it loses value when introduced into a fantasy setting, because it is entirely based on the limitations of IRL materials, physics and techniques.

In WoW, leather armour can be made of a wide array of fantasy animal hides with a myriad of properties. Who’s to say it can’t stop a piercing blow? Weapons can also be made of metals that are easier to wield, yet more durable than anything found IRL. They can also have a number of magical properties, both innate to the material or enchanted.

Similarly, the people of WoW, including humans and human-like races, have been repeatedly been shown to have physical abilities that surpass what is common (or even possible) IRL.

And I have to say, unfortunately, I have generally never enjoyed RPing with or against people who try to apply HEMA and real life history into their combat RP. Unless all involved parties share the same interest and knowledge, I really doubt it can be done in a way that is satisfying to everyone. Because why would someone who enjoys applying HEMA realism to their swordplay enjoy fighting against my bear-man wearing leather armour and wielding a gigantic flail?

So again, this was a nice read, and it’s a fascinating resource, but I feel the RP application is very limited.

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Fair correction feel this is a mistake I made in translating measurements, the more accurate average length would be around a meter 80ish to 110ish CM on average.

I feel that this should be expaned to include/comparable to their size with them varying between 1 and 2 and a half KG they were quite on par with in weight with arming swords

It is generally used to refer to a one handed sword “espĂ©es d’armes” originating sometime during the late medieval period in France. The sword of Saint Maurice is a 13th century arming sword. While yes it is a modern definition, since as far as we know, most swords were simply called “Swords”

I believe I missed an important note here of “Comparable to it’s size”

That is especially correct when it refers to pollaxes. While maces did in fact feature “Spikes” they still were bludgeoning weapons, with the point of a spike being as a way to concentrate force into a point.

I will note In Mele here, as an addendum, but at the same time anything outside of a forceful thrust with these weapons did very little to the wearer.
To argue with the dismissive attitude shown here “Good luck bringing a dagger to a swordfight” As it was often worn in conjunction with a gambeson the full complete set of armor offered incredible protection against both ranged and thrusting weapons

Obviously we are in a fantasy setting :slight_smile: !

I still appreciate your input on a lot of these points while I don’t necessarily agree with all of them.

I blame the incredibly off-putting back placement of certain weapons. Spears, warglaives (quite apropros weapons in a high fantasy setting vs. real world) and staves - it works on some races, less so with others.

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Like I stated in the OP it is a gloss over certain things. And like someone noted here this is a fantasy setting so everything should be taken with a grain of salt.
the HEMA instructor “Flex”? I don’t understand why that is a flex? Seems a bit childish to assume it is a “Flex”, we are discussing weapons here no?

A gambeson was in fact far more effective against slashes than a fantasy leather armor would be. That being said while “Leather armor” did isn’t really leather
 we are talking of leather and iron materials laced together as common in a lot of Asian culture.

Hot tip: if you go fury warrior you can equip a polearm weapon of choice + shield

Go do it, roleplayers

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Not true. Demonhide is described as rock-hard; it’s what provides DH tanks their protection. Demonhide armour, thus, would be as flexible as leather armour but possibly as strong as metal plate.

If that’s not OP, then what is?

From my time roleplaying spears, the general issue is people disregarding their unique qualities. This 
 links to the main post. Because I’m not referring to HEMA spear techniques, or ultra-realism. But simple details that are well-represented in RPGs.

  • People tend to ignore reach and not accept a counter-attack when they enter your melee range.
  • There’s an unusual amount of people believing they can parry a spear and “hit it to break it in two”.
  • People tend to ignore braced spears; ties to the first point but even worse when someone emotes charging at a braced spear.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts op.

Because it’s establishing you as some authority on the subject matter, and that your opinion is somehow greater than say, my own.

While i know that’s not your intent, that is how it came across.

Well yes, a gambeson was a real garment :stuck_out_tongue: tongue in cheek aside, the fact remains that leather was a very common component of armour, and there’s examples of their use as dedicated armour pieces. Hell, some words that we use now for metal armour, such as Cuirass, were originally from leather equipment.

Cuir bouilli, or boiled leather was a common form of armouring going back to the Roman times. so it was very much a thing. Worth looking into actually, it’s quite fascinating.

And that’s not even touching upon banded armour, coats of plates or whatever crazy stuff the far east came up with.

Where is the love for sabers?

Armour in warcraft in general doesnt really act realistically through magical materials, enchantments or just very different characters using it.
Tbh this is also a setting where (multiple flavours of) tiny teleporting acrobat assassin and a giant cow man built like a truck wielding half a tree are both pretty valid.

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Armour made for a gnome isn’t going to follow the same principles for armour made for say, an orc or worgen or big milk man.

And then we have to consider materials, from plain jane steel to some of the frankly hyper-exotic stuff like felslate or the shadowsteel we use to make legendary armour.

It’s a really fun thought exercise though if you’re in to that kind of thing but it can get a bit bewildering. Having some baseline knowledge doesn’t hurt though, such as the nature and purpose of layers under plate, or the effectiveness and purpose of leather armour. Adding the fantastical on top of this can lend a nice element of depth to roleplay if it’s done in moderation.

Hyper realism doesn’t work for Warcraft but it can be dropped in a little here and there to spice up emotes and make our own characters feel just a bit more grounded.